Mental Health and Cognitive Decline: A Serious Discussion with Melissa Gainey
In this enlightening episode, we engage in an in-depth discussion with Melissa Gainey, the esteemed founder of In The Garden Counseling, LLC, located in Lexington, South Carolina. As a Licensed Professional Counselor, Melissa brings a wealth of experience to the table, including cognitive behavioral therapy, a topic of growing relevance in our society. The conversation delves into the nuances of cognitive assessments, including a notable test administered to President Donald Trump, which Melissa graciously conducts on our host, Barrett Gruber. We explore the multifaceted nature of cognitive health, touching upon its implications for aging individuals and their families, as well as the broader societal context. Ultimately, this dialogue aims to illuminate the critical importance of mental health awareness and the resources available to those navigating these challenges.
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Visit In The Garden Counseling LLC for a list of Melissa's Services.
- MoCA 8.3 English Test (pdf)
- Montreal Cognitive Assessment
- In The Garden Counseling LLC - Counseling in Lexington, SC
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Transcript
The All About Nothing podcast may have.
Speaker B:Language and content that isn't appropriate for some.
Speaker A:Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker A:Welcome, nothingers, to the All About Nothing podcast.
Speaker A:I am Barrett Gruber.
Speaker A:This is episode number 253.
Speaker A:And we are going to have this week my friend, licensed professional counselor Melissa Gainey.
Speaker A:Welcome, Melissa.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:We're going to be talking about cognitive decline.
Speaker A:I am going to be the subject matter because at some point during this episode, I am going to take the same test that President Donald Trump took.
Speaker A:So we're going to do that here and Melissa's going to administer it for me.
Speaker A:But we're going to also talk about cognitive decline, basically this test and specifically but like what it is that people experience as they go, age wise and some of the factors that take into that.
Speaker A:So we're going to talk about that as well.
Speaker A:I want to thank real quick Sarah Jane Byers for this month's Common Sense with Sarah Jane Byers.
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Speaker A:So today on this podcast, we're going to be diving into the topic of cognitive decline with Melissa Gainey.
Speaker A:She is a licensed professional counselor and founder of in the Garden Counseling LLC In West Columbia, S.C.
Speaker A:melissa brings over a decade of experience in mental health field.
Speaker A:She has having both worked in the private practice and in home community care across western North Carolina.
Speaker A:Asheville, right?
Speaker B:Asheville and surrounding areas, yes.
Speaker A:Do you like living in Columbia more than Asheville?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Gotta be honest.
Speaker B:You know, the honest therapy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, it's.
Speaker B:It's definitely different.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, she.
Speaker A:You earned your undergraduate degree at University of South Carolina and your master's from University of Southwest.
Speaker A:In this episode, we're gonna be talking to Melissa something that isn't quite in her expertise or in her experience.
Speaker A:What is it you normal.
Speaker A:What is.
Speaker A:What is it you normally practice?
Speaker B:I do a lot of trauma work.
Speaker B:I do a lot of PTSD with veterans.
Speaker B:I do a lot of family work as far as parenting.
Speaker B:And I have a lot of teenagers that I help to kind of, you know, move through the adolescence and the high school and then transitioning on and that type of thing.
Speaker B:But my youngest client right now is 5 and my oldest is 81.
Speaker B:So I pretty much have a.
Speaker B:That's pretty broad.
Speaker A:What was it that got you into wanting to be a therapist or a counselor?
Speaker A:Because those.
Speaker A:Those are two different things.
Speaker B:My parents aren't watching my family.
Speaker B:You know, like, just coming from.
Speaker B:Most families have their issues and I think that I didn't understand a lot of that growing up.
Speaker B:And as I got older, I really wanted to kind of delve more into that.
Speaker A:I have family too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of.
Speaker B:A lot of mental illness, addiction and that kind of thing in my family.
Speaker B:And that's is just the truth.
Speaker B:And as a child, I didn't understand it, so I wanted to help other children, you know, to kind of move through that, I guess.
Speaker A:That's interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And we've known each other for what, five, six years?
Speaker B:Something like that.
Speaker A:We played softball and Woody's for a little while and.
Speaker A:Well, for.
Speaker A:For most of that.
Speaker A:Or I would show up and Melissa would have work to do here in an office.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:I was helping people like whatever.
Speaker B:Barrett.
Speaker A:I will.
Speaker A:I will say this.
Speaker A:I will say this.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:For.
Speaker A:Because we're about the same age.
Speaker A:I'm probably a little older, but you running around in left field and catching the ball is something that I can't do anymore.
Speaker A:So kudos, because having you in left field always made me feel better as a pitcher.
Speaker A:Because I play an adult co ed softball.
Speaker A:It isn't about trying to get strikes and getting people out.
Speaker A:It's about.
Speaker B:Basically about running around, putting the ball.
Speaker A:In play, and let your defense work.
Speaker B:We miss you as a pitch picture.
Speaker A:Well, thank you.
Speaker B:Oh, we truly do.
Speaker B:I miss you as a teammate.
Speaker A:Do y'all have a.
Speaker A:Do y'all have a pitcher?
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker B:Talk about that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, we do.
Speaker B:Yeah, of course we do.
Speaker B:Have you.
Speaker A:I always encouraged other people if they wanted to try and pitch.
Speaker A:Like, I don't mind playing first base.
Speaker A:I don't mind playing third base.
Speaker B:You were always very willing to move around.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But, like, you know, I just wanted to show up and somebody tell me where to play.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You were a great softball.
Speaker B:We do miss you.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker A:Oh, I'll.
Speaker A:I'll give you your money after this, so.
Speaker A:But what is.
Speaker A:What is one of the things.
Speaker A:Because you also, when you say you.
Speaker A:A lot of you work with teenagers and children, and a lot of what you do.
Speaker A:I have my.
Speaker A:My stepson, we went through a period where he was very frustrating or frustrated towards me.
Speaker A:Like, as his stepfather, he showed a lot of anger.
Speaker A:He was very opposed to following directions, but some of that was going through and learning that one.
Speaker A:He's slightly on the spectrum.
Speaker A:He also has ADHD that he's been tested.
Speaker A:And after we sort of came to that realization, we were, as a family dynamic, we were able to approach that.
Speaker A:I was able to look at it completely differently.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it completely changed our relationship.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:He's 19 now.
Speaker A:He is the assistant manager at a Little Caesars.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:He has not made any plans for college, but it's something that I don't see a need to push him towards.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, just kind of encouraging.
Speaker A:But it was.
Speaker A:It was finding out exactly what it was, how he learned or how he expressed himself.
Speaker A:And learning for me, because it's not just.
Speaker A:It's not him just learning to cope with, you know, what it is that his personality is, but it's also the family learning, learning how best to approach everything.
Speaker A:And it's not about making him like a special case, but it is recognizing that there are different ways to handle and it's worked out even, like with my own brother.
Speaker A:My brother suffered from severe brain trauma because he Had a brain tumor from the age of 7 or 4 or 5 all the way up until he still has the brain tumor.
Speaker A:But he had one seizure.
Speaker A:He had two seizure surgeries and one brain surgery.
Speaker A:But it left a trauma that he may always be well behind.
Speaker A:Mature.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But the approach that I learned with my son or my stepson, that.
Speaker A:That's something that carried over even in my brother, and then it even carries over into people that I work with because I recognize some of the same behavior patterns.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:From your experience.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:You know, I assume some of the people that you see are sort of facing the same situations, like.
Speaker B:And, like, changes in family dynamics and, like, blended families.
Speaker B:I think, you know, it's always hard for kids, or not always hard, but usually hard.
Speaker B:No matter what the shape of the family, you know, is you're a new person in their life that's supposed to be a parental figure.
Speaker B:And that feels odd, I think, in those developmental stages, and I think it just takes that work.
Speaker B:It sounds like you're doing that work, you know, to just, you know, bond with them and understand them and figure out what makes them tick and how to, you know, whether they're on the spectrum or they're just, you know, normal, which I don't believe in that word.
Speaker A:No, I agree.
Speaker B:What is normal?
Speaker B:You know, it's different for each person and each family.
Speaker B:So, you know, figuring out how he is developing and how he is processing emotions and trying to kind of work with him as a team, you know, I think is a.
Speaker B:Is a big part of that.
Speaker A:Yeah, some of.
Speaker A:Because both of my daughters.
Speaker A:One daughter is slightly on the spectrum as well, suffers from adhd.
Speaker A:And we discussed.
Speaker A:She's got some OCD tendencies going on.
Speaker A:My other daughter, who is less adhd, adhd, copes very well, but sometimes she has very emotional outbursts that.
Speaker A:That, you know, and you.
Speaker A:You handle both of them differently.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:As a.
Speaker A:As a parent and as, you know, a human being.
Speaker A:You just have to.
Speaker A:For me, I just have to recognize that you treat both with as much care as you can while recognizing that one is gonna be a different than the other.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of that is structure and routine, and no matter what they're dealing with, it is like.
Speaker B:It's a superpower.
Speaker B:I always say to my kids, ADHD and autism, they're superpowers.
Speaker B:They're not handicaps.
Speaker B:You know, it is.
Speaker B:You can use those things and apply it, you know, but that means, like, kind of behavioral interventions.
Speaker B:Where it's.
Speaker B:You help to create more structure with.
Speaker B:With one, you may help to loosen up a little bit with the other one.
Speaker B:You know, you kind of have to navigate and bob and weave in that.
Speaker A:I have literally said the same thing that I look at autism as being some, like, if it's a child, that's their superpower.
Speaker A:In fact, I was.
Speaker A:It wasn't.
Speaker A:It wasn't my most recent haircut, which I'm not super happy with, but that's great.
Speaker A:Oh, thanks.
Speaker B:Ye.
Speaker A:But the haircut I got previously, the.
Speaker A:The stylist that was cutting my hair, she was talking about her son and.
Speaker A:And how he was.
Speaker A:How he had just been diagnosed as.
Speaker A:As on the spectrum and.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And whatnot.
Speaker A:And we were having this conversation about it, and I was telling her about my children, and I told her.
Speaker A:I said.
Speaker A:I said, what is he good at?
Speaker A:Like, what is.
Speaker A:What is that one thing that he's good at?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And she said, well, he's.
Speaker A:He really, really likes to.
Speaker A:It seems like he's really drawn to animals or whatever.
Speaker A:And I said, encourage that.
Speaker B:I said, that's on that.
Speaker B:You know, like, whatever it is, they're going to be absolutely wonderful at that thing that they're passionate about.
Speaker B:It might not be your traditional thing, like, oh, get good grades or do chores well.
Speaker B:Or whatever, you know, but if they have that one thing, you know, just make sure that you celebrate that.
Speaker A:Very cool.
Speaker A:Well, I'm glad to finally get a professional to agree with me.
Speaker B:I'm not agreeing with you.
Speaker B:Let's talk out.
Speaker B:There's some other caveats, you know, but.
Speaker B:No, I think in general, yes, it could be.
Speaker B:It's a superpower.
Speaker B:And especially the young ones, you know, let's say 5 to 10 or 11, if you can get them to embrace the superpower aspect of it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that that helps them later on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:To not feel so isolated in it and not feel so, like, you know, ostracized.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:It's my adhd.
Speaker B:No, it's my adhd.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, like, it becomes something to celebrate and be ashamed of, I guess.
Speaker A:Did you know that that was something that.
Speaker A:That you were going to focus on when.
Speaker B:No, actually.
Speaker A:At all.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:But in working in western North Carolina, we had a lot of rural areas where there wasn't the best educational resources.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, so I think we came upon a lot of undiagnosed children, a lot of families that were not able to get to the resources, you know, they live.
Speaker B:I went to places that had no Plumbing, no electricity.
Speaker B:I mean, we went to the hollers, if you will.
Speaker B:It's a real thing.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, it really is.
Speaker B:And no cell phone service, which is a little unnerving at times, but you know me, I'm like, we got this.
Speaker A:Did you ever have to yell across the holler to get somebody to bring.
Speaker A:To let down the drawbridge or.
Speaker B:No, nothing like that.
Speaker B:I may have yelled a few times like, help me with your child because he is now on the river, or he's riding a horse across a pasture.
Speaker B:And I'm like, is that.
Speaker B:No, I don't know.
Speaker B:That might not be okay.
Speaker A:An escape.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Or just showing off.
Speaker B:And, like, I will jump on this, you know, horse or donkey one time, actually, and take off.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, you're six.
Speaker B:You're on the donkey, but you're hanging on.
Speaker B:You're doing well.
Speaker B:Again, a superpower.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But no, you know, I'm working in those areas.
Speaker B:I did start to become more familiar with ADHD and autism and that kind of thing.
Speaker A:So I think one of the.
Speaker A:One of the things.
Speaker A:And you don't have to agree with me if you don't want to, but fuck you, Robert Kennedy Jr.
Speaker A:The idea.
Speaker A:I agree with that.
Speaker A:Okay, fair enough.
Speaker A:But some of the things that he said at his press conference a couple weeks ago about how someone who is autistic.
Speaker A:Well, first of all, this belief that autism sets in at 2 years old if it's not taken care of.
Speaker A:The fact that his belief, without any scientific research at all, is that someone who is autistic will never play baseball or never pay taxes or never be able to use the bathroom unassisted.
Speaker A:And, like, these are.
Speaker A:These are atrocious claims to make, and.
Speaker B:They'Re completely, like, unfounded.
Speaker B:They're like, not.
Speaker B:You know, there's nothing that backs that at all.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Actually, there's a lot more information that backs otherwise.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, a lot of my clients that have XYZ are successful doing all of those things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, like I said we were talking about before we started recording, I work.
Speaker A:I work with a number of people that after.
Speaker A:After seeing, you know, diagnosis of.
Speaker A:Of the spectrum and then adhd, I work with a number of people that.
Speaker A:I recognize that in them.
Speaker A:And they may not be diagnosed, but I recognize it in them.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I have learned how to adjust what I.
Speaker A:How I.
Speaker A:How I ask of them, your expectations.
Speaker B:The way that you present what you would like from them or, you know, how.
Speaker B:How you interact.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's yeah, one of them in particular, I recognize when he is, when he is overly frustrated, he becomes much more difficult and much things become more difficult for him because that frustration starts to bleed into his communication.
Speaker A:And then, and, and so, you know, I will pull him aside and just say, I've got your back.
Speaker A:I said, whatever.
Speaker B:Deep breathing, whatever you need to do, you know, and if you can't communicate, that adds to that frustration like tenfold.
Speaker A:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:If you're feeling it and you can't communicate it, then of course you're gonna act out with behaviors.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And that's where parents come in and go, fix my kid.
Speaker B:He's hitting the walls.
Speaker B:But why is he hitting the walls?
Speaker B:He doesn't have the words or the, you know, the ability to, or coping skills to handle what he's feeling.
Speaker B:And I think that's where parents.
Speaker B:The education around that is really important.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Well, I would tell people to look up your practice to see.
Speaker A:But you all have a lot of clients.
Speaker B:I do have a lot of clients.
Speaker B:I would not say don't look up the practice.
Speaker B:I would say look it up, check it out.
Speaker B:And if you would like to get on the wait list, I have about a two month wait list.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I am more than happy to, you know, where I can.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:And there's a, there's a good possibility that you will also be up for Best of Columbia as far as Fingers crossed vote.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So this episode will come out before the voting starts, but we will absolutely push for all of the friends of the podcast to.
Speaker B:I'll be pushing for you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:As well.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, that works out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what I brought you on tonight for was because Donald Trump recently took his, his physical, which includes, because he is 78 years old, about to turn 79, a very specific cognitive test.
Speaker A:And when I looked it up, because I had seen some of the things reported in the news as far as what the test looked like and you know, he talked about it as though it was this test that he aced.
Speaker B:Flying colors.
Speaker B:Yeah, bigly.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:So I wasn't entirely certain as to what something like this test looked like because I've taken an IQ test when I was younger and I've taken, you know, I've never taken a cognitive test because.
Speaker A:For fear of judgment.
Speaker A:But I love your honesty.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, there's always the potential this could go very badly.
Speaker A:It really could.
Speaker A:But the fact that we have a president that actually has to have in order for.
Speaker A:Maybe it's not for Me?
Speaker A:Cause I don't know how well a cognitive test actually does in determining someone's level.
Speaker A:I mean, we talked about that a little bit, but I don't know that something like this actually really defines what it is that's going on.
Speaker A:How quickly are they gonna react to important things?
Speaker A:And as the president in my opin, you have to have the ability to respond in an intelligent way, or at least have the ability to assess what's going on, to give a good, really.
Speaker B:Complex situation, like, you know, war, or, you know, determining what our country needs to move forward and whatever that is.
Speaker B:But, like, this is a very simple test.
Speaker B:And like you said, this is not my forte.
Speaker B:This is not something I do a whole lot.
Speaker B:But when I saw it, I was like, wait, that's it?
Speaker B:That's all we gave him.
Speaker B:Like, and, you know, it's just something that you would give someone that you were worried about driving a car, possibly.
Speaker A:Or, you know, should they be taking care of themselves?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker A:That's even.
Speaker B:It is what he took to be able to.
Speaker B:Yes, I aced it, and I am running the country.
Speaker B:And it is disturbing a bit to me that this is what they gave him.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's the Montreal Cognitive Assessment, and this is what was he was given.
Speaker A:It should also be noted that this is the same thing that Biden was given all four years he was in.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And while I don't know what their scores were specifically, I think that if Biden had not passed it, that there would have been something said.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think it would have leaked, but it's not what I would call very complicated.
Speaker A:And that's not really just coming from me, whose IQ has been tested before, and it's come out decent.
Speaker A:And I don't know.
Speaker A:I guess I think one of the things that I find to be a hindrance sometimes, but I pride myself on is my observational skills and recognizing people's behaviors and things like that and being able to determine based on my actions, what the outcome is going to be.
Speaker A:So I can.
Speaker A:I can.
Speaker A:I can stay ahead and recognize what is what.
Speaker A:What is the most probable outcome based on my interaction with somebody.
Speaker A:That's my.
Speaker A:I think that's my superpower, because I.
Speaker B:Can get you a cape.
Speaker B:Like, I am.
Speaker B:I'm gonna get you a cape.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:So, okay, so anyway, so.
Speaker A:But that's.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's one of the things that I pride myself on, and I think that it makes me fairly cognitive, or at least my cognitive skills.
Speaker B:Are competent in those areas.
Speaker B:But, I mean, I don't know, I feel like this would be a lot more intensive and address many more things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If we were assessing the competency of someone that can, you know, push a button or can take away our rights, you know, and on and on.
Speaker B:But I would say that, you know, it may be something more, more comprehensive that you would do with that situation.
Speaker A:So, yeah, ultimately we're asking Montreal Cognitive.
Speaker A:Whoever it is that comes up with.
Speaker B:This test, whoever's in Montreal.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Do better call us, like, because.
Speaker A:So cognitive decline is prevalent with age.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:Two thirds of Americans experience some sort of cognitive impairment by the age of 70.
Speaker A:That encompasses both mild and severe forms.
Speaker A:Dementia is obviously something that we see a lot of cognitive decline in.
Speaker A:Melissa was kind enough to pull up some information and do some research.
Speaker A:What were some of the things that you found?
Speaker B:Well, well, I mean, I found the things that we probably all know, which is dementia and Alzheimer's and loss of memory and, you know, the things like you don't recognize a family member or you don't, you don't remember an appointment and that type of thing.
Speaker B:But, you know, what I really didn't know is that 1 billion people in the world are age 60 or over.
Speaker B: And that's in a: Speaker B: They say that by: Speaker B:And when you look at all the other information that we're going to, that we're discussing, it's like, wow, that's one in six of us that are going to be dealing with this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And going to have to take this one page test.
Speaker B:I'm kidding.
Speaker B:It's probably going to be more, it's going to be more thorough for us.
Speaker B:But, you know, just, you know, the most common, this is very interesting to me.
Speaker B:The most common mental health conditions, cognitively and otherwise for older adults are depression and anxiety.
Speaker B:And I think that that comes with the dementia and the Alzheimer's and then the lack of resources and support and that kind of thing, you know, which I did say, you know, tongue in cheek, but not really.
Speaker B:I was like, depression and anxiety, which the current administration has given me plenty of.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker B:You know, and I wish I had a little bit of the memory loss so that I could just forget this is happening.
Speaker B:But unfortunately, this is what's.
Speaker B:What's happening.
Speaker A:Admittedly, I think that's part of what's going on with some of his supporters is the memory loss I really do.
Speaker B:I believe I agree with you, sir.
Speaker B:A quarter of the deaths globally from suicide, which is 27%, are among age people 60 or over.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Who are experiencing these types of things.
Speaker B:But you know what happens as we age.
Speaker B:We all know that.
Speaker B:Cognitive decline.
Speaker A:Yeah, of course.
Speaker B:Like, you know, guess what that is.
Speaker B:You know, memory, concentration, brain function.
Speaker B:Set it up.
Speaker A:If there weren't an expiration time to all of what this is, I don't.
Speaker A:I think that would make me a little uncomfortable.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, we need to know, like, kind of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Stories or, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like where it's.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B:You know, we all know.
Speaker B:Losing your train of thought, forgetting things, feeling overwhelmed.
Speaker B:A lot of.
Speaker B:I'm sure that people out there have experienced people with Alzheimer's being angry, aggressive, that type of thing.
Speaker B:And then you take it personally a little bit.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:When grandpa or whoever does not recognize you and you.
Speaker B:Or demand something and then you get.
Speaker B:You get emotional, you know, and it's like, it's hard not to.
Speaker B:But I think that's another part of it, is just to remember that's not.
Speaker B:That's not genuinely where they're coming from.
Speaker B:They're confused and they're having cognitive distortion.
Speaker B:So, yeah, just a lot of, you know, you know me, I'm like, I've got pages.
Speaker A:Melissa pulled a lot of research.
Speaker B:The social support and I think the community support and having funding and having resources for this kind of thing is important.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, that is exactly what our current administration is abolishing.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I have a lot on that, too.
Speaker B:But we can just go on.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There.
Speaker A:I think one of the.
Speaker A:One of the.
Speaker A:One of the things I find the most disturbing is that most of the people that are in the administration currently are in and around that age group of where we're going to start seeing the cognitive.
Speaker A:Where you potentially are going to see the cognitive decline.
Speaker A:Now, that's not going to say.
Speaker A:I'm not saying that they are all gonna suffer from it or that any of them are suffering from it.
Speaker A:I certainly recognize some things with Donald Trump.
Speaker A:One of the things that came out today was he sat down with an interview with a reporter from ABC that aired last night where they were discussing the situation with the man that was taken to El Salvador.
Speaker A:And one of the things that Trump brought up was that he has the tattoos on his hand that say Ms.
Speaker A:13.
Speaker A:But what he couldn't get, what the reporter couldn't get Donald Trump to understand was, is that it was people, and it was Someone in his administration that was defining or had basically defined what the letters on his hand meant, because what he had on there was like a marijuana plant on one, and then it was a skull or something like.
Speaker A:And then a cross and then something else.
Speaker A:But, like, that someone had made some sort of crypto diagnosis of what those letters meant, and he went with it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But what they had done was they above those.
Speaker A:They had photoshopped in the letter M s 13 above it so that it could be easily.
Speaker A:So, so basically that was the proof that that's what those.
Speaker B:Those symbols mean and that we needed to, you know.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And that's not.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But in the conversation that the reporter had with Donald Trump, he could not get him to understand that the MS.13 was not physically written as a tattoo on his hand.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That had Photoshopped and that was very similar to conversations that I have had with someone in my family about similar things.
Speaker A:Is that there is this.
Speaker A:There is this.
Speaker A:And I think that's part of the cognitive.
Speaker A:A cognitive issue is that they are so attached to something that they want to believe that they.
Speaker A:They can't focus on anything else.
Speaker A:They will not let other.
Speaker A:Any other evidence come into play.
Speaker B:No room for any other type of.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It's not a conversation.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Statement.
Speaker B:And that's it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's the hardest thing with your family members and people that you care about that it's not a conversation.
Speaker B:They're not interested in actual factual information.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's not Photoshopped.
Speaker B:That's real.
Speaker B:It's fake news.
Speaker B:If you say that it's Photoshopped.
Speaker B:And honestly, the fake news is coming from their side.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's.
Speaker B:I think we're all exhausted trying to explain this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I will not stop fighting for what's right.
Speaker A:I hope not.
Speaker A:I hope not.
Speaker B:Absolutely not.
Speaker A:I do look forward to vacations from it.
Speaker A:Those little.
Speaker A:Little vacations, you know, a weekend here or there.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Somebody not showing up at the door and just letting themselves in.
Speaker A:You know, I know that sounds very specific, because it is.
Speaker B:Obviously it is.
Speaker B:Do you need to come in for a session about that?
Speaker B:Because I'm.
Speaker B:I welcome you with open arms.
Speaker A:Do.
Speaker A:Do you use any of your sessions?
Speaker A:Do you use, like, physical, like.
Speaker A:Like muting of senses?
Speaker A:Like, I don't know.
Speaker A:Mallet to the head.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker B:You guys know, I don't.
Speaker B:Any.
Speaker B:Any clients right now watching this?
Speaker B:No, we do some tapping.
Speaker B:We do some.
Speaker B:We do EMDR type Of.
Speaker A:Oh, interesting.
Speaker B:But, no, we don't really mute any of the.
Speaker B:No, it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Let it out.
Speaker B:This is my.
Speaker B:My no judgment zone in my non.
Speaker B:That's fair sanctuary.
Speaker B:And so we just.
Speaker B:We go for it.
Speaker A:Masochists, welcome.
Speaker B:For the most part, you have to be.
Speaker B:You have to be, like, screened first, but sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, I just, you know, the pain.
Speaker A:The pain sort of takes away from the reality.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, maybe I should incorporate that.
Speaker B:Add that on Psychology Today.
Speaker B:I also specialize in.
Speaker A:Here's here.
Speaker A:Right behind the chair is all of the mallets that are used to.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker B:Now we have all different sizes, shapes.
Speaker A:So cognitive decline.
Speaker A:To get us back on track, I pulled up some information.
Speaker A:Cognitive decline can result from various factors, including neurological conditions like, you mentioned Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease, strokes, that sort of thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Chronic health issues, high blood pressure, diabetes, and sleep apnea can also increase the risk.
Speaker A:Mental health, depression, chronic stress and anxiety are significant contributors.
Speaker A:Lifestyle factors, poor diet, lack of physical activity, and smoking can exacerbate decline Medication side effects, which if.
Speaker A:If you watch almost any regular television and you watch any of the commercials.
Speaker A:I almost get anxiety just from hearing the side effects from things that make it sound like they're improving people's lives.
Speaker A:And then it's like.
Speaker B:It's comical, but it's also horrific.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's like, you might breathe better, but you've got to kill your dog, eat it.
Speaker B:And like.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I was gonna say I was just gonna go as far as.
Speaker A:But now you have chronic diarrhea, and.
Speaker B:I went that far.
Speaker B:Like, you could view your dog as a romantic partner.
Speaker B:Kill it, eat it.
Speaker B:And, you know.
Speaker B:No, it's.
Speaker B:It really is ridiculous, though, because it's like some of our antidepressants and some of our things that are supposed to help with.
Speaker B:Also the number one is possible suicidal ideation.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or thoughts.
Speaker B:And I'm like.
Speaker B:I'm trying not to go there.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:I mean?
Speaker B:This could possibly.
Speaker B:If I were to.
Speaker B:My DNA, were to, you know, bond with this medication in a certain way, that I could actually want to take my life forward.
Speaker B:And so many of those medications.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially with the elderly, include that as the number one.
Speaker B:Suicidal thoughts.
Speaker B:Well, I'm coming to you with suicidal thoughts.
Speaker B:So, you know, but maybe not.
Speaker B:We're gonna gamble, right?
Speaker B:We're guinea pigs.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:That is a little frightening.
Speaker B:It really is pretty.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, it's pretty prominent as far as.
Speaker A:Those medications, there are blood pressure medications that destroy people's kidneys.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, it's like, okay, so could you improve your life a little better by being more active and maybe paying more attention to the food you're eating?
Speaker A:Or now you're on dialysis.
Speaker B:And now you're on dialysis, but your blood pressure is looking great.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think one of the.
Speaker A:One of the.
Speaker A:One of the other things that comes up when it comes to cognitive decline is judgment from people, and we may have talked a little bit about that.
Speaker A:I think Donald Trump is very prideful about what he wants people to recognize him as, and I'm sympathetic to that because this is a man who ultimately was basically handed his entire life.
Speaker A:Like, he's never.
Speaker A:There's never really been a lot of work that he had to do to get where he's at.
Speaker A:Not saying he didn't do any.
Speaker A:I'm just saying that, you know, he was.
Speaker A:He had a very lavish childhood.
Speaker A:He was, you know, the best schools were available to him.
Speaker A:And as far as the businesses that he did build, you get behind those or you get into the backstory on those, then you learn that it was mostly his name that carried through those, rather than the actual work that was done for them.
Speaker A:So when it comes to people making a judgment or assessing his cognitive decline, and what I think I recognize as being some of the issues that he is probably experiencing with repeating.
Speaker A:He repeats himself a lot.
Speaker A:He uses.
Speaker A:He will.
Speaker A:He will get off task or off subject of what it is that they're talking about very easily.
Speaker A:So with.
Speaker A:With some of.
Speaker A:With recognizing some of those as being part of what the cognitive decline is, I think that I also see that he is very prideful, which I think also sort of lends into some of the Alzheimer's and the dementia is that.
Speaker A:That he is very quick to anger when it's brought up.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So less.
Speaker B:Less likely to take accountability or to be able to converse about that.
Speaker B:Whatever he's presented with, I think he just instantly gets.
Speaker B:That's nonsense or fake news or, you know, or just leave me alone.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And that is very characteristic of Alzheimer's or some sort of dementia.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or cognitive decline in general.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or maybe he's just, you know, not willing to address it because the truth would be really uncomfortable for his.
Speaker B:For his platform.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:And again, knowing that it's not in the.
Speaker A:It's not a lot.
Speaker A:It's not involved in your practice.
Speaker A:But I assume, you know, counselors know each other, you know, people that that are.
Speaker A:That treat or maybe do sort of assessments on that sort of thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially with a lot of my friends at the VA or that, you know, that do a lot of work with veterans.
Speaker B:The VA is a little limited as far as.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:So with certain insurances, these veterans can go and see some of my friends that are in private practice, and they do deal with a lot of this.
Speaker B:And then, of course, on top of that being a lot of TBIs, a lot of, you know, a lot of trauma and PTSD from what they went through.
Speaker B:So that becomes just kind of a stew of different things that are contributing to the natural cognitive decline, you know, as they age.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:With veterans, I have to assume that it's.
Speaker A:It's both emotional and physical trauma that probably really play a role.
Speaker B:Veterans that I work with and that my colleagues work with are dealing with, let's say, missing a leg, having a TBI, having a titanium plate or 15 of them.
Speaker B:And also the PTSD and also the.
Speaker B:Just the mental health aspect of it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, that becomes very multidimensional, and then we don't have the resources to address it.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Especially here in South Carolina, you would think.
Speaker A:You would think at this day and time that, I mean, with.
Speaker A:With advancements in technology and the ability to.
Speaker A:To really streamline some of what could be available services, like, because it's not necessarily that everyone's going to get fixed just because.
Speaker A:Available resources, but to have those resources available.
Speaker A:I mean, we did an episode a couple of years ago with two service members, one of them active, one of them medically discharged, that both had very similar stories of the trauma that they went through when they were in Afghanistan during the.
Speaker A: I guess it was the mid: Speaker A:And we also had Taylor, who is a therapist as well, usc, who works with veterans and just talking about some of the trauma that they experienced.
Speaker A:But I mean, one of my friends, he has no use of basically the one side of his face because of the shrapnel and things from an IED or IED that.
Speaker A:I think that's the right word or the right letters.
Speaker A:Incendiary, explosive device.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But, you know, so.
Speaker A:And all of what he had to go through to basically build back his life after.
Speaker A:After being discharged from the military and then the change in life from not being in the military to now being.
Speaker B:Civilian, it's all just so, you know, it's.
Speaker B:And then not having resources that are able to help these folks to.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, come back to, let's say, Just normal life, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, with their families, you know, just.
Speaker B:Just to be able to function in that way.
Speaker B:Never mind the mental health, possibly meds, physical stuff that they're going through, Just all of it, you know, it just.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:We don't have.
Speaker B:We don't have that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, we don't have that for them to access.
Speaker B:And so that's where we look at the alarming statistics around suicide when it comes to veterans here in South Carolina.
Speaker B:But that's something we can address on another podcast.
Speaker A:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker A:I find when I talk a lot sometimes that my throat gets dry.
Speaker A:So we'll edit that out.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So one of the reasons that I had you here, which was the one that I think would probably be the most entertaining for people, is for me to go through and do the Montreal cognitive assessment.
Speaker B:I really hope you pass, Barrett.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker A:I did not bring over a pen or a pencil.
Speaker A:That's one of the things I forgot.
Speaker B:I could grab one of those.
Speaker A:Oh, sure.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:Goodness.
Speaker B:Would you like one as well as myself?
Speaker A:What is that?
Speaker B:Would you like one as well as.
Speaker A:Myself or a pencil?
Speaker B:Do we both need one?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think we can.
Speaker A:I think it's up to you.
Speaker B:If I give you a pencil, you can't erase it.
Speaker A:I promise I'm gonna be watching.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:That is one of the skills that I definitely did not develop as a child is the ability to erase.
Speaker A:I missed out.
Speaker A:I missed out on those instructions.
Speaker B:See if that works.
Speaker A:All right, perfect.
Speaker B:Your first test is to see if your pen works.
Speaker A:Do I know how to use a pen?
Speaker A:Oh, goodness.
Speaker A:See the glasses?
Speaker B:I can run for president.
Speaker A:If so, that would be fun, right?
Speaker B:I really would.
Speaker A:Wait a second.
Speaker A:At this point, how far have we had to go down?
Speaker A:Okay, so the first part of this is.
Speaker A:What do they call this?
Speaker B:The alternating trail making.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So essentially what it is is you have letters and numbers, and you begin on this one with the number, and you.
Speaker A:You basically move.
Speaker A:So the example is that they give is you start with 1 and move to A, and then you go to 2, and then you would go to B.
Speaker A:So I'm going to draw the line.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna say 1, A, 2, B.
Speaker B:You're getting ahead of the examiner.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker A:Now who's in cognitive decline?
Speaker B:I have cast it bigly.
Speaker B:Bigly.
Speaker B:No one's done this better.
Speaker B:Are you ready ever?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I'm also blind.
Speaker B:Please draw a line going from a number To a letter in an ascending order.
Speaker B:Begin here.
Speaker B:I'm going to point to one, and I'm going to draw a line.
Speaker B:I want you to draw a line.
Speaker B:Right, We've already got that.
Speaker B:From 1 to A, A to 2.
Speaker B:I'd like you to continue that, please, Barrett.
Speaker A:All right, so I assume I'm not being timed, but I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I'm gonna.
Speaker A:In order, for audio purposes, I'm going to tell you what I'm doing.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna go 1 to A, A to 2, 2 to B, B to 3, 3, 4 to D, D to 5, and then 5 to E, where it says end.
Speaker A:And if that were A.
Speaker A:If what.
Speaker A:What are the.
Speaker A:What are the ink blots?
Speaker A:A Warsaw test.
Speaker B:Then what do you see there?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It's a messed up number two, maybe.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's what I got.
Speaker B:All right, I'm gonna write that down.
Speaker B:I'm gonna be assessing you.
Speaker B:Like, I'm gonna send you your mental health assessment.
Speaker A:Probably a good idea.
Speaker A:I would turn that into the authorities, too.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So the scoring.
Speaker B:I could wait on the scoring.
Speaker A:Sure, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I could score you.
Speaker B:You get an A plus.
Speaker A:Oh, good.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker A:I'm gonna put my check mark.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker B:Okay, so the visio.
Speaker B:Constructional skills.
Speaker B:Okay, so the next one is the chair, but it says bed.
Speaker A:Yeah, so my test is a little different than.
Speaker A:Yeah, so the test that I have is.
Speaker A:It just says copy the bed.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:One point is allocated for a correctly executed drawing.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So we hope you get one.
Speaker B:It must be three dimensional.
Speaker B:All lines are drawn.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:For this bed here, it says chair, but all lines meet with little or no space.
Speaker B:No line is added.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Lines are relatively parallel and their length is similar.
Speaker B:The bed's orientation and space must be preserved.
Speaker A:Okay, go.
Speaker A:Oh, goodness.
Speaker A:I was gonna say.
Speaker A:That felt.
Speaker A:That felt weird.
Speaker A:All right, so I am.
Speaker A:I am not the artist in my family.
Speaker A:My mother is.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I'm gonna do this as mommy issues.
Speaker B:You're not supposed to do this during the test, Trump.
Speaker B:Barrett.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:Let's see.
Speaker A:So I am.
Speaker A:I think that I have.
Speaker A:I think I've mastered that.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker B:I mean, I'll let you know after the.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:She's gonna assess it.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:It's not quite as pretty, but it seems like it.
Speaker B:It does hit most of the.
Speaker B:It's three dimensional.
Speaker B:The lines are drawn.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:No line is at.
Speaker B:You didn't Add a line, Right.
Speaker A:I don't think so.
Speaker B:Like a sheet or a bed skirt?
Speaker A:Like, no, I definitely didn't put anybody laying on it either.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I was gonna say, like.
Speaker B:Okay, we didn't get perverted with it.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker B:All right, so visio constructional skills.
Speaker B:This is the next thing.
Speaker B:Oh, goodness.
Speaker B:This looks.
Speaker B:Wait.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Do you know what time it is?
Speaker B:All right, so this is drawing a clock.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, I would like you to draw a clock, put in all of the numbers.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I want you to set the time to ten past nine.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So mine says five past ten, but I'll do it ten past nine, so I can do that.
Speaker B:So why did you print this out for me?
Speaker B:Are you trying to.
Speaker B:Are you actually testing my.
Speaker A:Testing your cognitive ability?
Speaker B:Whatever yours says.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:How about that?
Speaker A:Okay, so what does yours say?
Speaker A:It says five past 10.
Speaker A:So it wants me to draw a clock with all the numbers.
Speaker A:This one looks more like a stop sign, but that's close enough.
Speaker A:So I am.
Speaker A:I am labeling the numbers so that they are evenly spaced, because that is what a clock looks like.
Speaker A:Unless it's that droopy clock from one of those paintings.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And in order to make it five past 10, I'm going to say.
Speaker A:So the little hand is going to be pretty much towards the 10, and the big hand is going to be pointed towards the one.
Speaker A:So did I need to put the dot in the middle to indicate.
Speaker A:Oh, is that.
Speaker B:We're going to talk about this.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker B:You're almost ready to rule our country.
Speaker B:But just like, hold on.
Speaker B:We got to keep going.
Speaker B:Now, this is going to be something that I'm.
Speaker B:I'm hoping that you can hear.
Speaker B:This is beginning on the left, and we have three animals here.
Speaker B:I'm going to point to each finger and I'm going to ask you to tell me the name of this animal.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Would you like to show them yours?
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll show.
Speaker A:And I'll look at yours.
Speaker B:So I'm going to start here.
Speaker B:And I'd like you to tell me.
Speaker A:The name of this animal that is a horse.
Speaker B:I would like you to tell me.
Speaker A:The name of this animal that is a tiger.
Speaker B:And I would like to take you to tell me the name of this.
Speaker A:Animal that is a duck.
Speaker A:I'm gonna check.
Speaker A:I believe I got those right.
Speaker A:Acedat.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You sound just like him.
Speaker B:Okay, this is actually really interesting.
Speaker B:This is the test.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, it is.
Speaker B:And when you presented this to me, I was like, okay.
Speaker B:And I printed out some things and I was like, this is going to be timely.
Speaker B:It's going to take some time.
Speaker B:We need to be here for a while.
Speaker B:And you were like, no, actually, it should take about 10 minutes.
Speaker A:I sneezed and got most of this.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Memory.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Now, just so you know, knowing that that's what this section is.
Speaker A:I have not looked at the.
Speaker B:I thought you were going to recited these.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:I have not looked at the five words I remember from Donald Trump's thing that he did with the guy from Fox News that it was like man, chair, television, woman, doorknob or something.
Speaker B:And if that is what this is, then you have cheated.
Speaker B:But I don't think it is.
Speaker A:Okay, that's fair.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Okay, this is a memory test I'm giving.
Speaker B:I'm going to read a list of words that you will have to remember and later on repeat.
Speaker B:Listen carefully.
Speaker B:Wait.
Speaker B:Tell me how many words you can remember.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker B:This is like.
Speaker B:Wait, hold on.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:No, you're good.
Speaker B:Sorry, guys.
Speaker B:Where is the.
Speaker A:It's there.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They put them.
Speaker A:They put them above.
Speaker B:Oh, I have to go back to the sheet.
Speaker A:Over.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Leg, cotton, school, tomato, white.
Speaker A:Leg, cotton, school, tomato, white.
Speaker B:I would like you to repeat those words again, please.
Speaker B:Go.
Speaker A:Leg, cotton, school, tomato, white.
Speaker A:Did I get them right?
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:That's for the therapist.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:You did great.
Speaker B:You did great.
Speaker A:I got a little paranoid, right?
Speaker B:I could think, you know, we should do like a parody of this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, Nazi, racist, you know, and like, just.
Speaker B:See, you know, I mean, I just think it could be fun, like golf course, you know, Sexual assault and victim.
Speaker B:Victim.
Speaker B:And he'd be like.
Speaker B:He could rattle those off.
Speaker A:That's pretty.
Speaker A:Yeah, probably.
Speaker B:All right, next one is attention.
Speaker B:Okay, wait, see, I see it.
Speaker B:Blindness is my thing.
Speaker B:Read the list of digits.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You have to report them in a forward order.
Speaker B:And that would be 2, 4, 8, 1 5.
Speaker A:2, 4, 8, 1 five.
Speaker A:So I have to repeat them back to you.
Speaker A:2, 4, 8, one five.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Okay, and the second one is repeat them.
Speaker B:Repeat those in a backward order.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Repeat those backwards.
Speaker B:2, 4, 8, 15 in a backward order.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:2, 4, 8, 15 5, 1, 8, 4, 2.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:I'm not supposed to tell you all that.
Speaker A:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:It's the immediate gratification of having it completed successfully that really.
Speaker B:You did great.
Speaker B:Okay, let's see.
Speaker B:I should have definitely blown this Up.
Speaker B:This therapist needs glasses.
Speaker A:You don't have reading glasses.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:I have far, far away glasses.
Speaker A:And then my reading glasses are at my desk, so.
Speaker B:If you had brought the reading glasses.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You probably could have used them.
Speaker B:All right, let's see.
Speaker B:Attention is the next.
Speaker B:Or is that.
Speaker B:Yes, attention.
Speaker B:No, we just did that.
Speaker B:Read.
Speaker B:List of letters.
Speaker B:The subject must tap with his hand at each letter A.
Speaker A:So is that.
Speaker A:So is that me reading the letters?
Speaker B:I'm reading the letters.
Speaker A:Oh, you're reading the letters.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Every time the letter A comes up, I need you to tap.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:All right, you ready?
Speaker A:I'm ready.
Speaker A:Now I have to count on you getting these letters right, too.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:You ready?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:F, B, A, C, M, N.
Speaker B:Oh, I got.
Speaker A:I got too quick.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was.
Speaker A:That was a.
Speaker A:That was a bad one.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Not supposed to repeat.
Speaker B:I'm just supposed to keep going from where I was.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:A, A, J, K, L, B, A, F, A, K, D, E, A, A, A, J, A, M, O, F, A, A, B.
Speaker B:All right, there's that.
Speaker B:That's just weird, isn't it?
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:It is not weird.
Speaker B:Like, this is a scientific.
Speaker B:You know, this is something that's been put out there that.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it is.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker B:This is what.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Administered.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:Is interesting.
Speaker A:And again, it's interesting.
Speaker A:Is he.
Speaker A:Is he taking it the same way we're taking it?
Speaker A:Like, is there.
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:Is it.
Speaker A:Does it feel like a joke to him?
Speaker B:I think most of this feels like a joke to him.
Speaker A:Well, that's fair.
Speaker B:But, yes, I think this probably was.
Speaker B:He was laughing at most of yes.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Oh, I aced it.
Speaker B:Flying colors.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Kind of thing.
Speaker B:Although a part of me wants to really know what the score was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, acing is.
Speaker A:It feels like there's.
Speaker A:There.
Speaker A:There's interpretation to acing.
Speaker A:You know, who knows?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Serial subtraction.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:Ew.
Speaker B:See, I would do terribly at this, which I'm not trying to run the country, but.
Speaker B:We're starting at 60.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:We're starting at 60.
Speaker B:Starting at 60.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Subtraction.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:60 minus 53.
Speaker A:Well, okay, so the way I read that was.
Speaker A:Is that.
Speaker B:Oh, by seven.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Subtracting, subtracting.
Speaker A:So it's starting at 60.
Speaker A:I'm subtracting by seven.
Speaker A:How many.
Speaker A:How many.
Speaker A:How far back do I go?
Speaker B:Okay, so 60.
Speaker B:You go subtract by seven and then keep going.
Speaker A:Okay, so 60 minus seven is 53.
Speaker A:53 minus seven is 46.
Speaker A:46 minus seven is 39.
Speaker A:39 minus seven is 32.
Speaker A:32 minus seven is 25.
Speaker A:25 minus seven is.
Speaker A:That's eight.
Speaker A:18.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:As far as it goes.
Speaker B:But I wanted to see if you could just end it.
Speaker B:But like, that.
Speaker B:And that's great.
Speaker B:But, like, I almost messed you up.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:I thought it meant, like, start at 60 and then minus 53, minus 30, you know.
Speaker A:Oh, well, you know, I was gonna say 53.
Speaker A:60.
Speaker A:53.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Secretary of Defense, here I come.
Speaker B:Okay, now, language.
Speaker B:I should have brought my.
Speaker B:My magnifying glass for this.
Speaker B:Like, that would have been probably good.
Speaker B:Or like, you know.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:So abstract.
Speaker B:Let's see.
Speaker B:We have a little bit more.
Speaker B:I think it's.
Speaker B:We're going to do fine.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Language.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker B:Maybe that was right before that.
Speaker A:Oh, I didn't.
Speaker A:I didn't look at that section.
Speaker A:Language.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's verbal.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Verbal fluence.
Speaker A:I think it's a repeating thing again.
Speaker B:Repeat after me.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's a repeating thing again.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Are you ready?
Speaker A:I am.
Speaker B:The child walked his dog in the park after midnight.
Speaker A:The child walked his dog in the park after midnight.
Speaker A:Oh, goodness.
Speaker A:You make faces that make it seem like I got it wrong.
Speaker B:Are you ready?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:The artist finished his painting at the right moment for the exhibition.
Speaker A:The artist finished his painting at the right moment for the exhibition.
Speaker A:Did I mess that one up?
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:That'S funny.
Speaker B:I'm getting you with that face.
Speaker B:All right, let's see.
Speaker B:Oh, gosh.
Speaker B:Name maximum number of words in one minute.
Speaker B:Oh, hold on.
Speaker B:Whoa.
Speaker B:That's timed.
Speaker B:So we're.
Speaker B:This one is.
Speaker B:Let's name the maximum number of words in one minute that begin with the letter.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I can't tell you that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:Because then I'll start thinking about it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:If you haven't already cheated.
Speaker B:You haven't.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I haven't.
Speaker B:Okay, good trump.
Speaker A:Now, even.
Speaker A:Even.
Speaker A:Even if.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Even.
Speaker A:Even.
Speaker A:Even if it was.
Speaker A:Even if it was a letter, like, and I knew what letter it was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You could.
Speaker A:You could obviously change that letter and say it has to be a different letter.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Unless it's.
Speaker B:Oh, I actually could.
Speaker A:Unless it's, like, the letter X or something.
Speaker A:Because then I got, like, two words.
Speaker B:We're not going to do that for you.
Speaker B:We're not going to do that to you.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So let's see.
Speaker B:Can we.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:You want me to get my.
Speaker A:I'm going to say whenever you're ready?
Speaker A:I'll.
Speaker B:All right, hold on.
Speaker B:Let's see.
Speaker B:It would be one minute in length.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Name the maximum number of words in one minute that begin with the letter be.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:And starting right now.
Speaker A:Book.
Speaker A:Biplane.
Speaker A:Barnacle.
Speaker A:Bishop.
Speaker A:Borat.
Speaker A:Byzantine.
Speaker A:Barclay.
Speaker A:Breakdown.
Speaker A:Goodness.
Speaker A:This isn't.
Speaker A:This isn't that easy to do.
Speaker A:Bible.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:This is actually not that easy because I'm trying to picture things in my head.
Speaker A:Bat ball, Baseball ball.
Speaker A:Cap.
Speaker A:I'm just saying the same word now.
Speaker B:It works, though.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:That's not.
Speaker A:That isn't very.
Speaker A:In my minutes.
Speaker A:About a minute's up.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Did I get.
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker A:I don't think I got.
Speaker B:11, 12.
Speaker B:Oh, 13.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Well, I was waiting for Bigly.
Speaker A:I feel.
Speaker A:I feel like that's a.
Speaker A:I feel like that's an assault on the English language, though, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's not a word.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You did great with that, actually.
Speaker A:I'm glad.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Okay, so we're down to the last two things.
Speaker B:So here we go.
Speaker B:This is about abstraction, which is similarity between two things.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So similarity between an orange and a banana would be.
Speaker A:They're fruit.
Speaker A:Except I don't think a banana is really a fruit.
Speaker A:I think a banana is a berry.
Speaker B:I know, but they say it's a fruit.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Ready?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Hammer and screwdriver tools.
Speaker B:Last one is going to be matches and lamp.
Speaker A:Matches and lamp.
Speaker A:The source of light, I mean.
Speaker A:Or when they're off, they're useless.
Speaker B:That was a cool way to put it, actually.
Speaker B:I like that.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Delayed recall is the next.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:All right, hold on.
Speaker B:You have to recall words with no cue.
Speaker A:This is the part where you have to go back and remember those five words from before.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:What are they?
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Let's see.
Speaker B:I don't know if I could do that.
Speaker A:Let's see.
Speaker A:Leg cotton.
Speaker A:White was one of them.
Speaker A:I'm really.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I'm sure they're listed right in front of me.
Speaker A:White was leg cotton.
Speaker A:White was one of them.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:That's all I can remember.
Speaker A:So the three.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:What were they?
Speaker A:Oh, school and tomato.
Speaker A:Yeah, I wasn't gonna remember those.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker B:I would not have.
Speaker B:That was surprising to me.
Speaker B:That was probably one of the ones.
Speaker B:I would be like, okay, Trump, if you pass that.
Speaker A:Well, maybe you are.
Speaker A:Okay, well, remember he sat.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He stood in front of a camera.
Speaker A:It was like TV camera, man, woman.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Okay, so the last one is orientation.
Speaker A: th,: Speaker B:Okay, got those three right.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:What is the day of the week?
Speaker A:Today is Wednesday.
Speaker B:Where are you?
Speaker A:I am in your office in, like, regionally.
Speaker A:West Columbia, South Carolina.
Speaker A:United States of America, Southeast, Northern hemisphere.
Speaker B:What city?
Speaker B:West Columbia.
Speaker B:You already said that.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And I'm pretty sure that we are.
Speaker B:We're done here.
Speaker B:Is that it?
Speaker A:I think that's it.
Speaker A:Honestly, I.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't even know that it really needs to be scored unless you really feel like you want to.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm pretty sure you aced it.
Speaker B:Other.
Speaker B:Other than.
Speaker B:I'm gonna say other than just that.
Speaker B:That absolute, like, recall from before, but I really feel like.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, we are, you know, like, I don't think I would have retained that unless I knew I needed to retain it.
Speaker A:So let me.
Speaker A:Let me.
Speaker A:Let me see if I can do it now, because knowing that it was school and tomato that I missed before, it was leg and white and cotton.
Speaker A:Was it not white?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Well, does it.
Speaker A:Oh, does it want you to remember that order?
Speaker B:You have to recall with no cue as far as, like, the order.
Speaker A:So it was leg, cotton, school, tomato, white.
Speaker A:Was that right in the order?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Melissa, you get faces that make me feel like I got it wrong.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:I like that.
Speaker B:It just messes with.
Speaker B:You know, it's just like, you.
Speaker B:You really did.
Speaker B:I mean, you aced it.
Speaker B:You aced it bigly.
Speaker B:I mean, it.
Speaker B:You knew what a horse was.
Speaker B:I mean, the duck didn't give you paws like you.
Speaker B:You drew the bed.
Speaker B:Well, it.
Speaker B:I mean, you really did.
Speaker B:I mean, you got.
Speaker B:I would say.
Speaker B:I mean, honestly, I would say 29 out of 30.
Speaker B:Just because you didn't do the recall without.
Speaker B:But I think that's.
Speaker B:Anybody that's not prepared to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You didn't, like, insert that into your recall space because you didn't know it was going to be.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And they were.
Speaker A:Those are just random words as far as I recognize, like.
Speaker B:Like 29 out of 30.
Speaker A:I wouldn't.
Speaker A:I wouldn't be able, like, if.
Speaker A:Leg.
Speaker A:You know, if.
Speaker A:So if I was.
Speaker A:If I was in a situation where I was trying to put those words into some sort of a context in this room, I could say, like, okay, your leg.
Speaker A:I could say the cotton.
Speaker A:The wool.
Speaker A:Cotton over there.
Speaker A:I could say that there's a school nearby, because whatever.
Speaker A:You know, I don't.
Speaker A:That bowl could hold tomatoes and then.
Speaker B:And then it's all about white people.
Speaker B:Is that right?
Speaker A:Did you grow up in South Carolina?
Speaker A:Should I, Should I.
Speaker A:I'm gonna start assessing you.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Next time you bring me in assessment.
Speaker A:Well, I guess on that bombshell, we'll wrap up the podcast.
Speaker A:But I appreciate you sitting through this with me and putting up with this.
Speaker B:This is fun.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:This feels absurd is really what it feels like.
Speaker A:And the fact that Donald Trump's cognitive ability is being assessed by this and the likelihood is that situation was probably similar, that he was being assessed by someone that is a friendly, not just a medical doctor that that is, is giving him this test.
Speaker A:And I think that's ultimately what I take away from it is as easy as this was, I think that it's also made easier by the environment that he's in.
Speaker A:Let Mitch McConnell take this test.
Speaker A:I think that it would be.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, he, he, he fell down the stairs going to the cafeteria one day and then.
Speaker B:But, you know, I mean, I agree with you that this is, I don't feel like this is anything close to what we should be administering to someone who's in charge of the country things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, again, Melissa, thank you very much.
Speaker A:Melissa, of course, is one of the co founders because you and your partner co founded the.
Speaker A:It is the in the Garden Counseling llc.
Speaker B:I love you, Kendall, but no.
Speaker A:Oh, you just did it just.
Speaker B:It's just me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But she actually, she and I just lease the space together.
Speaker B:Her office is back that way and she's amazing.
Speaker B:That is Renew Counseling Services and she's also open for business, but we just, we share the space.
Speaker B:We don't.
Speaker A:I'm going to say individual llc.
Speaker A:I'm going to say all that again, but differently.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:I want to thank Melissa Gainey for being on the podcast.
Speaker A:I'm going to leave it in, but I'm going to say it again.
Speaker A:She is the founder of in the Garden Counseling llc, based here in Columbia, South Carolina.
Speaker A:I really appreciate it.
Speaker A:And links to her practice are going to be found in the show notes.
Speaker A:So, you know, there is about a two month waiting period.
Speaker A:She has a lot of.
Speaker A:She's busy.
Speaker A:I will say that she is busy.
Speaker A:I was, I was very happy that she was able to work this in.
Speaker A:In very short notice, too.
Speaker B:I was able to do it.
Speaker B:And we're gonna have my comfort zone a bit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, this is something I'm really excited to learn more about, honestly.
Speaker A:But we're gonna have Melissa on again because you also a lot of what you work with DSS children, that sort of thing.
Speaker A:I, I think that that is as, as we have discussed, how child services are being handled in South Carolina is not, it is a detriment to the children, especially the ones that are involved.
Speaker A:But that is a subject that we are definitely be talking about very soon because even Sarah Jane Byers, who is, who does a segment on our podcast every month called Common Sense with Sarah Jane Byers.
Speaker A:She is an arbitrator for the 11th or the, the district out of Lexington for child services.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Juvenile services.
Speaker A:So, so she's, and she also has 44 years of experience as a high school teacher.
Speaker A:And, and so, you know, she's been.
Speaker B:In it for a while.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we need to put more energy, funding and you know, resources toward our families and our children.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That are.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Experiencing this type of thing.
Speaker B:But to be continued.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Well, thank you again, Melissa for being on the show that is going to do it.
Speaker A:For episode number 253, links to all of our past episodes, podcast platforms, merchandise and social media are available at our webpage the all about nothing.com and if you think our financial model of giving away free content and entertainment is silly and you're in the giving mood, why not become an official Nothing or support the show?
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