Joely Williams on Digital Detox and Her Book 'Put The Phone Down, We Have A Job To Do'
Joely Williams joins us to discuss her compelling book, "Put The Phone Down, We Have A Job To Do," which serves as a profound exploration of our relationship with technology and the urgent need for reconnection with ourselves and our communities. Through her work, Williams emphasizes the detrimental impact of excessive screen time, urging us to recognize the importance of presence and engagement in our daily lives. As she shares her personal journey, we delve into themes of healing, expression, and the transformative power of writing. The episode not only highlights Williams' insights but also invites listeners to reflect on their own habits and consider the meaningful changes they can make. Join us as we engage in a thoughtful conversation that seeks to inspire a greater awareness of our digital behaviors and their implications on our lives.
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The All About Nothing podcast may have language and content that isn't appropriate for some.
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Speaker A:Welcome nothingers, to the All About Nothing podcast.
Speaker A:This is episode number 257.
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Speaker A:No, no hard cuts there.
Speaker A:This is episode number 257.
Speaker A:We have.
Speaker A:Our guest is Ms.
Speaker A:Joelli Williams.
Speaker A:Joelle, we're going to introduce you better here in just a minute, but we'll tell you why she's here on the show this week.
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Speaker A:So that is over@theallaboutnothing.com so I want to welcome to the show this afternoon, this evening, whenever you're listening to it, Ms.
Speaker A:Joelli Williams.
Speaker A:Welcome, Joelli, thank you for being here with us.
Speaker C:I really appreciate this.
Speaker A:Joelle, you are an author.
Speaker A:I made notes, so I have a sheet of notes.
Speaker A:So author, poet, educator, you are the creator of the book.
Speaker A:Put the phone down.
Speaker A:We have a job to do.
Speaker A:If you could tell us, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker A:I know you're from the Bronx and you are now a native here to Columbia, South Carolina.
Speaker A:So tell us your journey.
Speaker A:How did you get here?
Speaker C:It's been a long journey of finding exactly what it is that I wanted to do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I've always been huge on expression, even as a child.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I was always writing, journaling, drawing.
Speaker C:And so that always drew me to wanting to sort of help people do the same thing.
Speaker C:So, yeah, for me, it's always been about creating and writing.
Speaker C:And writing for me is the root of everything that I do.
Speaker C:I've always been drawn to it.
Speaker C:And so I think these are things that are not separate from healing.
Speaker C:It's the language that we use in writing and literature and things of that nature that help us to say what we feel inside and say it plainly.
Speaker C:So when I couldn't explain my traumas and different aspects of life that I was going through, I wrote it.
Speaker C:I wrote it out.
Speaker C:And when I couldn't name depression or joy, I let my metaphors and different writing techniques speak for themselves.
Speaker C:Poetry for me has always been my voice and it's always helped me make something meaningful out of the chaos that I've experienced in life.
Speaker C:And so that's how my book started.
Speaker C:Put the Phone Down.
Speaker C:We have a job to do.
Speaker C:It's structured like a workbook.
Speaker C:So there's a lot of writing and those type of ideas in it.
Speaker C:But it was born from sort of the same place that my poems come from and my writing comes from.
Speaker C:And it's from feeling deep feelings and listening and needing a space to translate my pain into something that's useful and beautiful and to share with the world.
Speaker C:So that's how I got here.
Speaker C:Just going through life and realizing that people also need help.
Speaker C:So that's how this book came to me.
Speaker A:Now the name of the book, Put the Phone Down.
Speaker A:We have a job to do.
Speaker A:I think the only appropriate question for me to ask is how much do you on average, what is your screen time usage on average on your phone?
Speaker C:That's a great question.
Speaker C:So I rarely use my phone throughout the day.
Speaker C:I don't have the exact percentage, but I do, I do mainly just have music playing on my phone, that's all.
Speaker C:And on a daily basis I probably use it about, you know, probably like four hours a day, not too much.
Speaker A:That's impressive.
Speaker A:That's impressive.
Speaker A:I, I receive I think so many notifications during the day that I, I mean I could tell you my screen time usage right now.
Speaker A:I could, I could very easily pull that up because holy cow.
Speaker A:And this is offensive even to me.
Speaker A:But that is, I don't know if you can see it.
Speaker B:Oh, I won't show on there.
Speaker B:It's a little too bright.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Oh, hold on.
Speaker B:Was that 11, is that 11 hours?
Speaker A:11 hours and 54 minutes.
Speaker B:That sounds about right.
Speaker B:Honestly, I'm probably the exact same way.
Speaker B:My phone is going off all the time.
Speaker B:I read the news immediately as it comes out.
Speaker A:So having very not yet adolescent children, I have, I have 10 year old twins that when they go down is when I go down.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If I'm lucky.
Speaker A:So I am.
Speaker A:I am actually a little appalled.
Speaker A:Today may be a little off.
Speaker A:Today, the day we're recording this is Wednesday, May 28, and today is different.
Speaker A:Likely by now I probably would not have used that much time, but because the Best of Columbia opened up, I had web pages to update, I had to set schedules for these social media posts and things like that.
Speaker A:So I started doing that very early this morning, which, you know, obviously has risen on the bell curve of my screen time usage.
Speaker C:Even though that's the title of my book.
Speaker C:I've had to use my phone, like, you're saying like a lot during the whole making of it, doing all of this promo work.
Speaker C:It's crazy, but I'm still trying.
Speaker C:It's still a work.
Speaker A:Well, okay, let me ask you this.
Speaker A:As far as the promo work for the book, this is your first book, but you have had other.
Speaker A:You have authored other projects.
Speaker A:And I have here the Scales of Dust Festival for poetry, Coffee Runs Through My Lineage, Northern New England Review, Poetry in Mag Cloud and Liminal Woman, A Drink from the Wellspring.
Speaker A:So this isn't your first piece, but as far as, like, the book, what sort of promotional stuff have you done to try and get it out there in front of people?
Speaker C:Honestly, I am not trying to do much.
Speaker C:I'm just trying to post as much as I can on social media and I'm just kind of going with the flow with it.
Speaker C:I'm also trying to put more of my poetry out.
Speaker C:So that's another outlet of getting people to know me and to know what I've created with this book.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Well, then I'll ask my previous question again.
Speaker A:How is it that you arrived in Columbia, South Carolina, Bronx, New York City is much different from Columbia.
Speaker A:What was the journey that brought you here?
Speaker C:So the journey that brought me here, it's definitely been a journey, not only geographically.
Speaker C:I was born in the Bronx, and that's a place where it's always loud.
Speaker C:People are always, you know, making noise.
Speaker C:They're really blunt and they don't care.
Speaker C:It's a place that, it's a, A place that's full of heart.
Speaker C:And it's definitely great that, you know, you can get, you can walk outside and go get a nice deli plate at 2 in the morning.
Speaker C:And Colombia has been a big adjustment for me.
Speaker C:First of all, the transportation aspect, that was so new for me, not being able to just get on a train or a bus somewhere quickly, or just being able to walk somewhere quickly.
Speaker C:Is really hard to adjust to.
Speaker C:So that's definitely one of the things that it's been a change.
Speaker C:And then also just racially and socially, it's been kind of hard to deal with because in the Bronx, you're always like, immersed in a deep, diverse cultural soup, you can say, and the languages that people speak, the different foods on every block, you just have so many different types of people coexisting.
Speaker C:And sometimes it can be chaotic, but it's always really vibrant.
Speaker C:And so in Colombia, it's just been really spread out, I guess you can say, like, there's like.
Speaker C:I don't know if this is the right term to put it as, but it's like a racial segregation sort of like most events that I go to, I don't see many people like me and my family out there.
Speaker C:And it's always like stares and little comments and it's like, oh, it's a little scary, but.
Speaker C:And, you know, I just noticed how different systems, even in school or different community spaces, they're still sort of catching up to the inclusion that is spoken of.
Speaker C:But I don't really see it.
Speaker C:And, you know, I do like Colombia, and it's sort of small power that it has.
Speaker C:It's somewhere that I can sense that people want things to change.
Speaker C:And when there are events, there are people that show up for the communities, and there's a lot of space here to grow things.
Speaker C:And I think that's really great about here.
Speaker C:And also the parking here, I think is very, very positive.
Speaker C:Is a definitely great change, huh?
Speaker B:Don't get me started on parking.
Speaker C:I heard you mention it before.
Speaker A:Yeah, we did a whole episode on Columbia's parking.
Speaker A:That was just a few episodes ago.
Speaker A:But no, I completely agree.
Speaker A:So I grew up in Atlanta, and Atlanta is.
Speaker A:The diversity in Atlanta is done.
Speaker A:When I was a child in Atlanta, I recognized a lot of diversity, but it was in very specific parts of Atlanta.
Speaker A:We had Buford highway, which.
Speaker A:Which was dubbed at one point International Boulevard.
Speaker A:And you know, like, there were.
Speaker A:There were a lot of different restaurants and markets and things like that.
Speaker A:But it's not like the Bronx where you can go to a.
Speaker A:A Deli at 2 o' clock in the morning.
Speaker A:You know, here in Colombia, everything just.
Speaker A:You know, there's a point at which almost everything shuts down.
Speaker A: e there's some sort a time of: Speaker A:We don't have a lot of businesses in Columbia that are open all night.
Speaker A:Long, but it is, I do see hints, I do think that the city of Columbia does try to allow for there to be festivals and things like that, but it's not really, it's not, it doesn't give you the sense that it's a diverse community all the time.
Speaker A:It's only, it feels diverse when we have, you know, June is Pride Month, so we'll have a Pride Festival.
Speaker A:We have, we have, I'm trying to think other one.
Speaker A:We have Korean festival, we have, we have Mexican or Spanish festival and things like that.
Speaker A:So we do have some of those, but they seem specific to time periods or when, when there's a, when the city has a permit that's been available for it.
Speaker A:So I, I agree.
Speaker A:I, I, you know, I live in a neighborhood that I recognize as being very diverse.
Speaker A:We're a, we're a lower, mid to middle, middle class neighborhood.
Speaker A:I was telling you before we started recording, I have Dominican neighbors on my left.
Speaker A:I have Vietnamese neighbors across the street.
Speaker A:I have Chinese neighbors down the street.
Speaker A:I have Pakistani neighbors down the street.
Speaker A:I have Indian neighbors, you know, so when I walk through the neighborhood on just a daily walk, I smell all of the foods that people are cooking and it smells amazing.
Speaker A:And that's the kind of environment that like, I want to raise my children in.
Speaker A:That's the kind of environment I want, I want to live in.
Speaker A:Because Bill and I talked about on the last episode.
Speaker A:One of the things that the United States thrives on, in my opinion, is migration and immigrants and having that diversity.
Speaker A:Because that's what keeps the United States young and vibrant and unlike what the current administration wants to do, in my opinion, which is, you know, whitewash everything, but okay.
Speaker A:So to get back to your book, what is the meaning of Put the Phone Down?
Speaker A:What is it that inspired the title.
Speaker C:And the message Put the Phone down, we have a job to do?
Speaker C:The book is about, it's sort of like a wake up call, I want to say not only for myself, but for the world.
Speaker C:I want to be able to tap people on the shoulder and say, hey, the world is not going to fix itself and our government isn't going to do it for us either.
Speaker C:So it comes from this idea where I was actually in the same boat as everyone else.
Speaker C:I was constantly using my phone and constantly scrolling, comparing and disconnecting from real life.
Speaker C:And while I was thinking that I was staying connected to my, my friends, my family, to the world, really, I was just always scrolling and scrolling.
Speaker C:And just one day it hit me that we're not just wasting our time, but we're wasting our purpose.
Speaker C:And that what, that's what the book for me is really about, is pulling us back together as a community and to our greater calling.
Speaker C:It's a workbook and a reflective journal that I think will help people reconnect with themselves and the world around them without relying on screens so much.
Speaker C:So the book has 30 full length, full length chapters and each centered around major themes of reconnection and healing.
Speaker C:And these themes go from digital detoxing to having a presence and for yourself.
Speaker C:It goes to family abandonment and cultural memory.
Speaker C:Different topics of parenting.
Speaker C:And a lot of it also talks about identity.
Speaker C:So yeah, each chapter comes with 10 to 12 reflective questions and thoughtful prompts designed to help readers unpack their patterns, belief and experiences.
Speaker C:And it also has a lot of different tasks that the readers can engage in.
Speaker C:And it ranges from different artistic exercises to memory work, breathing practices, storytelling challenges, and different things that you can do in your community to not only put to action all of that's coming out as far as your trauma and the healing work that comes from it.
Speaker C:And then it also has a lot of space for writing and journaling, brainstorming, drawing, planning.
Speaker C:And each chapter is almost like a personal retreat that you can take time for yourself to learn about yourself and learn what you want to do with your time when you start to put the phone down.
Speaker C:And that's the job, really, the job is your life.
Speaker C:And how much time and work are you going to put into that to feel fulfilled at the end of the day or end of your life whenever that comes?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:So it's available on Amazon and just looking at some of the information is the print length is 769 pages and you mentioned that it is partially a workbook.
Speaker A:I'm assuming that there are some pages that some of that, the bulk of that is the availability to do some journaling, to do some self reflection and writing in there.
Speaker A:So I think that's great.
Speaker A:It says the reading age is between 13 and 18 years old.
Speaker A:But I assume that knowing some of the adults that I know that some of this would be pretty good for young adults or even adults my age.
Speaker A:I have a house full of ADHD and I know that we, we found some incorrect information earlier related to autism.
Speaker A:But one of the things that I believe when it comes to ADHD and being on the spectrum that it's finding ways to work through what it is that your ADHD might be blocking you from or what your autism might potentially be blocking you from.
Speaker A:But recognizing that I think ADHD and anyone that's on the spectrum, they, they have special skill sets and we have.
Speaker A:And, and finding how my children learn and take in knowledge and, and how they, you know, the, one of the things that they have in them is that they are very much addicted to their electronics when they're in their hands.
Speaker A:When, when you deviate from that and you get them onto any sort of creative path or creative instruction, schooling, that sort of thing, they go to it very well.
Speaker A:But it's, it's, it's the fact that the, the, the, the phones and the tablets are such an easy distraction from, from just regular life that, that it's, it's almost like severing a lifeline for them.
Speaker A:They have, they.
Speaker A:All of, they're homeschooled, so all of their friends are also homeschooled.
Speaker A:So that's their connection to their, to the outside world for them in a lot of ways, except for the activities that they go to and things like that.
Speaker A:But this is, this, I've already added it to my cart, so this is something that I'm going to have to bring home so we can have them take a look at it as well.
Speaker C:It does have that age frame because that was mainly the ages that I started to have sort of a knowledge of, of or idea that I was going through so much.
Speaker C:And I need help at these times, but for this book is for everybody.
Speaker C:I wanted it for parents, caregivers, for therapists and counselors, college students, creatives, anybody really, that needs to just get back to, to themselves, I think.
Speaker C:And that's what this book has helped me do because a lot of this comes from work that I've actually done.
Speaker C:It started out as me writing questions for myself, and then after I dealt with those issues and questions, I started to write them for my husband, for my kids.
Speaker C:And then I started to look at the broader scope of like everybody needs.
Speaker C:Everybody has traumatic events.
Speaker C:So I'm going to just create a lot of questions for all types of issues and hopefully this will help somebody.
Speaker C:So I don't want it to come off like, oh, I'm.
Speaker C:I'm the queen of not having my phone in my hand.
Speaker C:But more so I just want to say, look, we're all, we're all addicted to our phones, but we can do better.
Speaker C:We can definitely tell our stories.
Speaker C:And yeah, I reflect on what I've seen and I try to ask those questions in this book to help, to help everybody, honestly.
Speaker C:But I also laugh at myself when I Do overuse my phone.
Speaker C:I do poke fun at others like, hey, you're on your phone.
Speaker C:Too much time to get off.
Speaker C:But it's definitely nobody's perfect.
Speaker C:And I know that sometimes as parents, we also feel like, this deep, deep shame.
Speaker C:Like, I let my kid use their phones for more than what I wanted, but nobody's perfect, and we're all capable of creating that change in our homes that we want to see.
Speaker C:And so, you know, I want this book to feel like, you know, it's a conversation with ourselves or with me or with a family member or whatever the case may be, but without all the guilt and shame that's attached to using our phones as much as we don't want to.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:I'm fully addicted to mine.
Speaker B:I mean, it's like, at least I want to say every 10 minutes, I get buzzes and notifications.
Speaker B:I just look over and check or something else.
Speaker B:I mean, it's.
Speaker B:It has become just also, I'm, like, dependent on it.
Speaker B:I mean, I take too many phone calls.
Speaker B:I have phone calls all the time, text messages.
Speaker B:Always something's happening.
Speaker B:And so I feel like there's some level of.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I don't want to say, like.
Speaker B:Well, I feel like one of the pros is that you can be social with it, but there's still that.
Speaker B:That's not what I'm always doing.
Speaker B:A lot of the time.
Speaker B:It's also like reading and watching videos.
Speaker B:That's just.
Speaker B:I mean, I look down and then an hour has gone by.
Speaker B:I mean, it really is some.
Speaker B:Some sort of addiction that I will admit that I have.
Speaker A:I am absolutely of the mindset that there is an Eden somewhere that I am not connected to anything, that I don't have any devices that, you know.
Speaker A:And I realize that it's going to probably be about the time that my dementia sets in and I' in a home where I'm strapped to a bed and can't make any decisions for myself.
Speaker A:But, you know, it's.
Speaker A:But I do.
Speaker A:I do appreciate the times where, let's say I sit down and just read a book or watch a movie.
Speaker A:Like, there is significant desire to have that time more often, or, you know, just to sit.
Speaker A:To sit down and read with your children or to.
Speaker A:I love having the discussions because one of the things that my kids really enjoy is talking about history.
Speaker A:My daughter Vivian is very much obsessed with the Broadway show Hamilton, and she has researched on her own just some of the things from the play or from the Broadway from the musical and the differences between what Hamilton and who he was and the things that he really stood for versus what, what is in what makes a good Broadway show.
Speaker A:But learning history about him and then also learning history about some of the characters that were in that.
Speaker A:That are.
Speaker A:That are.
Speaker A:That are, that are in the play or that are.
Speaker A:That are described in the musical and, and learning that history telling her that, you know, that slavery wasn't just confined to the south, that, that early on that, you know, and that.
Speaker A:That the, the heroes that we have recognized as being these forefathers of the United States aren't heroes in the sense that, that they still, they still used slavery to amass their wealth, whether it's, you know, Madison or Washington or.
Speaker A:I think, I think one of the, One of the very.
Speaker A:One of the, One of the only like original or the first few presidents, John Adams was that didn't have slaves.
Speaker A:And then, and then he did have slaves when he was president because he was the first president to move into the White House, which still had slaves building it.
Speaker A:So, you know, but she's.
Speaker A:I enjoy talking to her about history and learning, learning along with her and, and, and, and both of them, those sorts of things.
Speaker A:So, but, but I also recognize that that is disconnection time.
Speaker A:That is time that I am not holding my phone, that they're not staring at their tablets.
Speaker A:Again.
Speaker A:I want to tell everybody we have author Joelie Williams, who has written a book available on Amazon, Put the Phone Down.
Speaker A:We have a Job to Do.
Speaker A:It is available in paperback, large print on Amazon.
Speaker A:You can find links in the show notes.
Speaker A:The tagline at the bottom of the description says, for anyone ready to put the distractions down and pick up the pieces of themselves, this book is for you.
Speaker A:When you wrote this, obviously a lot of it was also tied to your personality or to your situation.
Speaker A:You mentioned your trauma.
Speaker A:Was there anyone else close to you that you also recognized that this is something that would benefit them?
Speaker C:So it was definitely something that I think was needed for my husband and just my family in general, or just everybody around me, but specifically my children.
Speaker C:I saw that they were having a lot of trouble getting me and my husband's attention.
Speaker C:And that was something that sparked the desire for me to create this book.
Speaker C:I was ignoring the job of being their, their parent.
Speaker C:And that was really, it was just hurtful to see.
Speaker C:And then I would see it on social media as well.
Speaker C:Parents scrolling and their kids trying to get their attention.
Speaker C:And that was something that really sort of like smacked me in the face, like, I have to stop ignoring my responsibilities and duties to.
Speaker C:To myself and to my children.
Speaker C:And then on a larger scale, it was speaking up for my community and having the awareness to help others around me.
Speaker C:You know, when it comes to being married, a lot of it has to do with listening to one another.
Speaker C:So I was not doing that as well, or I was listening, but not really listening.
Speaker C:And it was just causing problems in the household in general.
Speaker C:So those were some of the relationships that I saw that were changing due to my own phone addiction.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I think that's amazing, the amount of self reflection that that takes to.
Speaker A:And then to put that to task, to try and.
Speaker A:Because is it working?
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:I guess that's.
Speaker A:That's one of the big questions.
Speaker A:And not as a reflection of the book, but everything that you've put in place, are you seeing improvements and results?
Speaker C:As far as my relationships go now, it has improved a lot, actually.
Speaker C:We all try our hardest to stay connected to one another.
Speaker C:I started listening more, I started being present, and I was finding different spaces where I could put my phone down.
Speaker C:And like, at dinner time or just having, you know, moments with my husband and my kids, I was able to teach them more because I also homeschool.
Speaker C:So I was able to use my time more wisely to create lesson plans and things of that nature.
Speaker C:My husband, he even noticed, and he was like, you know, I want to try this.
Speaker C:I want to stop using my phone as much too.
Speaker C:It's a little harder for him.
Speaker C:But that goes back to.
Speaker C:To mental health and just learning how to deal with your issues instead of picking up the phone when you're stressed out, you know, you have to learn different tactics to stay rooted in your feelings and actually address them in that moment.
Speaker C:So it definitely has shifted the energy in our house, but it wasn't really easy.
Speaker C:It was really hard.
Speaker C:Just acknowledging it and then doing it is two different things.
Speaker C:We had to have some really strong conversation about attention, about presence, and digital boundaries that we wanted in our home.
Speaker C:While those talks were extremely uncomfortable for us at first, they did bring us closer as a family.
Speaker C:When one person shows up and really wants to, you know, lead as an example in your house, everyone.
Speaker C:Everyone feels it.
Speaker C:Everyone wants to be a part of that, especially kids.
Speaker C:They see mom and dad interacting more and taking time to be with one another.
Speaker C:They want to join in on the night card games or the reading sessions or the quiet time that we have at home.
Speaker C:They want to do the same thing.
Speaker C:So I'm always Thinking of different ways to stay physically, emotionally and mentally connected to.
Speaker C:To my family.
Speaker C:And, you know, it's never.
Speaker C:It's never always a positive thing, like, for one instance, has required to let go of some difficult situations and relationships.
Speaker C:So as I continue to dive deeper into the trauma healing that this book has provided, I had to acknowledge that not every relationship could stay with me.
Speaker C:I had to stop at some point answering phone calls and messages from people that I needed to distance myself from.
Speaker C:So it wasn't easy, but it was definitely necessary.
Speaker C:And because healing isn't just about what you do, it's also about what you stop doing, and that's important as well.
Speaker C:And sometimes healing asks you to be there for you.
Speaker C:And it may be really hard to do it, like stopping some relationships or stopping some behaviors, but it's a way that.
Speaker C:Or it's something that's going to change you in a way that you've never been before, and it's going to bring you closer to your real self, I guess you could say.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Bill, I want to ask you, because you are between all of us, I assume you are the most recent to education as far as, like, university and high school.
Speaker A:Bill is.
Speaker A:Bill is 23 now.
Speaker B:I am 23 and just graduated in December.
Speaker A:So how, how.
Speaker A:What do you, what do you believe your skills in poetry are like?
Speaker A:Did you have to write poetry when you were in school?
Speaker B:Poetry?
Speaker B:I did a little bit.
Speaker B:I remember for my specific major, they required either a English literature class, which is actually a British English literature class, or a poetry class.
Speaker B:And I opted to take the British literature one just because.
Speaker B:Yeah, we.
Speaker B:Yeah, we.
Speaker B:Yep, a lot of that.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We probably read eight books.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:So, I mean, to be honest, I.
Speaker B:I thought it was very interesting, but there were very dull parts of it.
Speaker B:Poetry I, I enjoy.
Speaker B:I remember when I was in high school, I did some poetry and, you know, I always loved a shell.
Speaker B:Is it Silverstein?
Speaker A:Silverstein.
Speaker A:Shel Silverstein?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Shout out to Shel Silverstein.
Speaker B:You know, I love that.
Speaker B:But I never really got into a whole lot of.
Speaker B:It was a long one.
Speaker A:I don't think Shel still around, so I can't.
Speaker B:No, I don't think so.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:The reason I.
Speaker A:So I am and because I want to get into some of your.
Speaker A:Your poetry, Joel.
Speaker A:But I am.
Speaker A:I am not very good at reading poetry and getting the meaning out of it, getting the feeling out of it.
Speaker A:I have a really difficult time.
Speaker A:I can.
Speaker A:I can listen to music and learn the lyrics and repeat them back along with the music and sing in the car and not recognize any of the words and what the meaning of those words is until I hear an artist explain what it is that that song was about.
Speaker A:And sometimes then I have to reflect and go, should I have been singing that in front of my children?
Speaker A:And the answer is probably no.
Speaker A:Rage against the Machine.
Speaker A:While I want them to have that political drive, I certain I don't need them repeating some of those words in front of their friends or their grandparents.
Speaker A:But, Joeli, you are a poet.
Speaker A:You have several pieces that have been published with some of them that I got off the list, the Scales of Dust.
Speaker A:So I have not read it.
Speaker A:I look at a title like that and in my head I start to think, okay, what.
Speaker A:What could this potentially be about?
Speaker A:So I'm judging the book by its cover.
Speaker A:So I would prefer you tell me before I go into a spiel where I'm completely wrong, because that is not good.
Speaker A:So what is this poem about?
Speaker C:Let me pull it up.
Speaker C:Because I've written so many poems that I can't remember verbatim the words.
Speaker C:So let me just.
Speaker A:Well, well, let me ask you this.
Speaker A:Where can people find your poetry?
Speaker C:So right now I don't have a specific place.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:I like to just post it to different magazines and journals and do it that way.
Speaker C:I am working on an anthology of my poems because I do have years and years worth, but most of my stuff is published in other people's releases, publications.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I don't have a specific place, but.
Speaker C:So the scales of this.
Speaker C:I'm just gonna read it and then sort of say what it's about.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:The Scales of Dust by Joelie Williams.
Speaker C:The judge and robes a gavel poised to break a measured breath before the verdict falls the jury's eyes like iron gates opaque behind them hum the distant present walls the lawyer paces, weaving webs of doubt his silver tongue a blade behind a smile yet truth and fiction wrestle, flail about and both may lose if dressed in right denial the witness shakes a hand upon the book yet perjury's a coin that all may spend the guilty sit with innocence look, the innocent are guilty in the end what is law but paper turned to dust?
Speaker C:A game of gold, A theater of trust.
Speaker C:So this poem talks about sort of all of the pros and cons of the judicial system.
Speaker C:It's sort of like a theater or a show.
Speaker C:In the theater, everybody's dressed up.
Speaker C:Everybody has to come looking a certain way, and everybody has these specific roles that they need to Play to be able to either put someone in jail or not.
Speaker C:And then a lot of the times, no one's ever really right in these situations because everybody's just trying to get the best outcome for themselves, you know, regardless of the crime or the criminal.
Speaker C:For me, a lot of crime stems from.
Speaker C:From the lack of care and services provided to certain communities and people.
Speaker C:So I feel like that really what this poem is about is the lack of trust that everyone has for each other.
Speaker C:And then when it comes down to the judicial system, it's really a lack of care for the person committing the crime.
Speaker C:Just everything that lawyers have to do in order to prepare to share their story so that people can sway to whichever story they feel makes more sense.
Speaker C:I feel like this has been a long history of this, of just people just trying to look out for themselves instead of caring for those below them.
Speaker C:So far as the judicial system goes, they don't really care about mental health.
Speaker C:They care about, you know, how many people can we put away in jail?
Speaker C:Or how many.
Speaker C:How much money can we make from this?
Speaker C:So those are some of the ideas behind this poem?
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:No, and I think that the poem was written very well, and I think it expressed that very well.
Speaker A:And I am a firm believer that there is no one that is a criminal because they just want to be a criminal.
Speaker A:There's nobody that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That is committing crimes against.
Speaker A:Whether it's an institution or someone committing crimes against their neighbors.
Speaker A:They aren't.
Speaker A:No one does it just out of this desire to cause harm.
Speaker A:I mean, we do have sociopaths, but I think that for the most part, most people that are convicted of a crime because they were found guilty of whatever it is they're charged with, it's purely out of necessity that.
Speaker A:Because here in the United States, and it happens in other countries as well, but here in the United States, we have a social structure that really, it doesn't provide enough.
Speaker A:Either it's an education, or it is the social net or, you know, the socioeconomic net that is absolutely necessary.
Speaker A:We have such a difference in what it is that people's value is, you know, like the poor and the poverty and middle class and then.
Speaker A:And then upper class, you know, but we see criminals in the upper class, too.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, just.
Speaker A:Just today, a very popular television show that I watched for several years with, with Todd and his wife, the Chrisleys.
Speaker A:They were pardoned by President Trump yesterday for bank fraud and tax evasion.
Speaker A:And I think to myself, why?
Speaker B:$30 million?
Speaker A:Yeah, why?
Speaker A:Why would he why would he pardon these people for what they did?
Speaker A:And then I think about it as like, well, he's been accused of both of those things and we know that he's done, he's had, he's done bank fraud because of his filings with the fec.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I guess it kind of makes sense that if there's somebody out there that's committed the same sort of crimes that he would potentially pardon him just because they say they like him.
Speaker A:He pardoned a sheriff or a sheriff's deputy in Virginia yesterday.
Speaker B:That is that he pardoned the, that insurance guy.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, but who was it?
Speaker B:He like withheld $7.3 million of the Social Security.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And then he just like had a million dollar dinner with his wife or something and pardoned him.
Speaker A:But I am, I am a firm believer of the, the idea that that and we don't have a system that really prevents crime.
Speaker A:We have a system that really sort of encourages people to fight out of necessity.
Speaker A:And sometimes in those situations it's taking.
Speaker A:So while I would prefer that they not commit crimes, I certainly think that the system should be better to try and prevent those crimes.
Speaker A:If we could have a system that, that builds people up out of poverty, that helps, you know, that helps people take care of their families and their children, that other countries do it and they're not nearly as wealthy as our country.
Speaker A:So I think that's fantastic.
Speaker A:You have.
Speaker A:Before we start wrap this up, I did want to ask about Coffee runs through my lineage.
Speaker A:This one, I'm not sure if you have access to that one in front of you, but I am very interested in this one.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It was in the Northern New England Review.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And is it, is it out of heritage?
Speaker A:Is this because, you know, you were born and raised in the Bronx, but obviously your family is.
Speaker A:Is not necessarily a New England New York family.
Speaker A:Family.
Speaker A:So how is.
Speaker A:What is a coffee runs through my lineage?
Speaker A:I'm curious.
Speaker C:Yeah, so let me pull it up.
Speaker C:The pink and orange halo sign still gleam on frosted roofs where morning breath collects.
Speaker C:We've built religion on caffeine and cream.
Speaker C:We sip a right that ancestry respects.
Speaker C:My mother's voice came steep in caramel My father drove with one hand on his cup.
Speaker C:A drive through priestess knew our name so well she blessed the lid before we pulled it up.
Speaker C:No siren song, no beings from distant lands can match the comfort of this waxen gold.
Speaker C:We live and die with coffee in our hands and generations passed before it cooled.
Speaker C:You'll find us Here through war, through storm, through rust, a powdered donut nation built on trust.
Speaker C:So, yeah, this story or this poem comes from our family's love for coffee.
Speaker C:It's the reflective narrative almost of how coffee is more than just a drink for us.
Speaker C:It's the time for our family to connect with one another.
Speaker C:Whether we're drinking coffee at home or coffee on the go.
Speaker C:As this poem speaks, it's always a moment where we can just talk and reflect on our family.
Speaker C:Anything that is either in disagreement with each other or agreement.
Speaker C:A time for coffee or a time for tea is always a great time for me and my family.
Speaker A:Coming up, I think the appropriate follow up question is how do you take your coffee?
Speaker C:Well, I don't drink coffee as much now as I'm older and neither do any of my family members.
Speaker C:We're on this whole like Matcha.
Speaker A:Not the South.
Speaker C:We're on this Matcha thing now.
Speaker C:So it's just.
Speaker C:But, well, we did used to love it black with a little sugar.
Speaker C:And that's it.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's how, that's how I take mine.
Speaker A:Black with artificial flavoring.
Speaker A:So I'm going to get cancer, I'm sure, but that's, that's how I drink mine.
Speaker A:Bill, how do you, how do you take your coffee?
Speaker C:Straight black.
Speaker B:Straight black.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:Just straight black.
Speaker A:Nothing else in it.
Speaker B:Straight black coffee.
Speaker A:So, so then, then, Bill, the question is, is it a medium roast?
Speaker A:Is it a dark roast?
Speaker B:Dark roast.
Speaker C:I have a question.
Speaker C:So if you guys were stranded on an island and somehow had Wi Fi, what apps or what three apps would you keep in order to survive?
Speaker A:My gosh.
Speaker B:To survive.
Speaker A:Bill, I'll let you go first.
Speaker A:Well, I tell you what, Bill, you name your first one, I'll name my first one.
Speaker A:That's how we'll do that.
Speaker B:Order in order to survive.
Speaker B:Am I trying.
Speaker B:Can I contact someone if I have an app?
Speaker A:Well, you're stranded.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker B:But if I have WI fi without wi fi.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:With or without WI fi, Joel?
Speaker C:I guess that's easier with Wi fi.
Speaker A:Okay, so you have WI Fi.
Speaker A:But let's, let's, let's assume, let's assume that the outside world is not available.
Speaker C:So far.
Speaker A:You can't contact me as far as like, you know.
Speaker A:You can't.
Speaker A:Yeah, you can't.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not like I could just have WhatsApp or something and contact anybody.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You're on a local network, sir.
Speaker A:There's no outside for survival.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm gonna.
Speaker B:I feel like I would have to download a lot of music.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I would need a lot of music.
Speaker A:Music app.
Speaker A:I think if I'm stranded on a desert island, I think the first app that I would want to make sure that I had would be like not Kindle, like the Kindle app on my phone.
Speaker A:So I'd be able to.
Speaker A:I'd still be able to read books and I'd have the ability to entertain myself that way.
Speaker A:Maybe a little book on.
Speaker A:Instruction manual on how to build a shelter or how to build a fire, how to fish.
Speaker A:That would.
Speaker A:Those would be.
Speaker C:That's what I was thinking.
Speaker C:I was thinking more so apps for like life saving skills.
Speaker C:I don't know, but Instagram is not going to help.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a good idea.
Speaker B:WikiHow.
Speaker B:That would work.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, WikiHow would probably.
Speaker B:WikiHow has an apple.
Speaker B:They could probably tell me how to do everything I need to do.
Speaker A:All right, so Is that your second app?
Speaker A:You need your wikiHow?
Speaker B:Yeah, wiki.
Speaker B:I'd have access to all human knowledge.
Speaker A:Ooh, okay.
Speaker A:That's a tough one to follow.
Speaker A:I think that I would still want.
Speaker A:Because there's always the possibility that if I've been here long enough that after I've expired that someone will find my phone.
Speaker A:I think that I would probably like to have a voice record, the voice recording app so that, so that my thoughts can be.
Speaker A:I can record my thoughts so that somebody could potentially use those for, you know, the good of all mankind later on.
Speaker A:I have zero ego.
Speaker B:You're not doing, you're not doing camera or video.
Speaker B:You're just doing straight voice.
Speaker A:This, this face was made for radio, sir.
Speaker B:I see, I see.
Speaker A:What's your, what's your third ad there, Bill?
Speaker B:I think camera.
Speaker B:Camera would have to be it because then I can like, if I'm describing something, I'm just like, yeah, there was this thing that happened to me.
Speaker B:Check it out and then I can flip it and show like, or create.
Speaker C:Videos and something happening.
Speaker B:I don't know what it would be.
Speaker C:No, go ahead.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I guess I would just be like, man, check out this animal I found out here.
Speaker C:Could turn it to a whole documentary.
Speaker B:After like a cool looking bird or monkey.
Speaker B:I mean, if you're stranded, that's about it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I'm going to say my third app would be the New York Times crossword puzzle.
Speaker A:That would be.
Speaker A:That would be my last one.
Speaker A:I would, I would want the New York Times crossword puzzle unlimited subscription so that I'm not paying for it while I'm, you know, deserted on some island somewhere.
Speaker A:So, you know, I don't know, I just, I, I think it'd be interesting to keep my, my skills, my skills up on that, so.
Speaker A:Well, Joeli, we really appreciate you being on the show with us.
Speaker A:Before we let you go though, because you are a first time guest and having authored a book, it makes you a celebrity in our eyes.
Speaker A:So you have to do.
Speaker A:I have to ask you to do our seven questions again.
Speaker A:The light's too bright.
Speaker A:You can't.
Speaker A:You can barely see these things.
Speaker A:So the, if you, if you've heard this segment, then you're probably prepared, but hopefully, hopefully you've heard it and just forgotten.
Speaker A:So the first question is, what was the last thing that you probably had.
Speaker C:To do with something along the lines of my children, because I am a, like a frantic parent.
Speaker C:So anything that's wrong, I will google it.
Speaker C:Like if they, I don't know, have a mark on their arm or they're telling me something hurts, I'm like, google, what does this mean?
Speaker C:So that's probably one.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right, second question.
Speaker A:If you could have one superpower, what would it be?
Speaker C:This is actually funny because I was watching the series of X Men recently, so I would want to have the power of Dr.
Speaker C:X being able to control people's minds and read their minds.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:That's a good one.
Speaker A:He is an omega level mutant.
Speaker A:So you, you have picked one of the strongest.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The third question.
Speaker A:If your life were a movie, and we change this one a little bit.
Speaker A:If your life were a movie, what would be the opening sound or the opening song to that movie?
Speaker C:I don't know if you guys listen to Kid Cudi, but it would be Kid Cudi.
Speaker C:Rose.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:Rose Gold with Willow Smith.
Speaker C:That's a good song.
Speaker A:Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker A:Kid Cudi in the news this week having, or I guess it was last week because he was on the stand for the P.
Speaker A:Diddy and apparently he said that P.
Speaker A:Diddy would be like the Marvel supervillain.
Speaker C:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker A:Trafficking.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:I'm like, you know what?
Speaker A:It would take an artist like Kid Cudi to come up with that.
Speaker A:I would not have thought of that.
Speaker A:That was really good.
Speaker A:All right, fourth question.
Speaker A:If you could eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Speaker C:I would eat mangoes.
Speaker C:Mangoes are so filling and delicious and they're just great.
Speaker C:I could eat 20 mangoes a day and I'll be fine.
Speaker A:Man, that does.
Speaker A:I do like.
Speaker A:I do like mangoes.
Speaker A:I do like mangoes.
Speaker A:All right, fifth question.
Speaker A:What is your least favorite candy and why?
Speaker C:It's hard.
Speaker C:My least favorite candy.
Speaker C:Oh, man, do I have one.
Speaker C:I love candy.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Twizzlers.
Speaker C:Twizzlers.
Speaker C:And those types of candies because, yes, they are delicious, but they're so hard to eat.
Speaker C:I have to pull so hard on it to bite it.
Speaker C:It's so complicated.
Speaker C:But they are tasty.
Speaker A:So the licorice in general.
Speaker A:So I used to.
Speaker A:When I would go to movies, because I'd go by myself.
Speaker A:If they had a pack of Twizzlers, that was what I got as my snack.
Speaker A:I'd get a water or a soft drink, and I'd get my.
Speaker A:My pack of Twizzlers.
Speaker A:And that's what I had during the.
Speaker A:But I don't see the pack of Twizzlers very often anymore.
Speaker A:It's not because it's not there, but it's probably just because I'm not looking.
Speaker A:All right, question number six.
Speaker A:What is one strange or unusual talent that you have that you're comfortable with?
Speaker C:So I like to rap.
Speaker C:I like to rap, and sometimes it doesn't make any sense, and most times it's just a whole bunch of nonsense, but I like to just randomly rap throughout the day.
Speaker C:I just start rapping about stuff.
Speaker A:Well, I won't put you on the spot and ask you to do one, but I think Bill wants me to.
Speaker B:So I really want you to.
Speaker A:Do you need a beat?
Speaker C:Okay, go ahead.
Speaker C:Okay, I could put on a beat.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I would do it.
Speaker B:I would love to hear just something.
Speaker B:Just something.
Speaker C:Okay, I'm going to find a beat real quick.
Speaker C:Can I do that?
Speaker A:I was going to say worst case scenario.
Speaker A:Then the requirement is that at some point in the next week or so, you send me a leak to a social media post of you rapping and just nonsense.
Speaker A:We can.
Speaker C:We can do that.
Speaker A:We'll do it that way.
Speaker A:All right, last question number seven.
Speaker A:If you could have dinner with any three people, dead or alive, who would they be?
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Dead or alive, I would choose probably one of my great grandparents from my mom and dad's side.
Speaker C:And then so, like, maybe my maternal great grandmother and my paternal great grandfather, and then maybe Shakespeare.
Speaker C:Shakespeare.
Speaker C:Because I want to know, okay, if he was actually a real person or not.
Speaker C:And then also if he really wrote those pieces or not.
Speaker C:If that makes sense.
Speaker A:So you need Shakespeare.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Shakespeare needs to be sitting down at dinner, and he has to be honest, that might be a tough one to pull off.
Speaker A:Even the ghost of Shakespeare, I think, would probably lie to us.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:And who would be your third choice at dinner?
Speaker A:It's not an easy question because there's always the obvious ones.
Speaker A:There's always the obvious ones.
Speaker A:Like people will be like, oh, I'd like to sit down and have dinner with Jesus Christ.
Speaker A:But I'm just going to put this out there.
Speaker A:I believe he's probably a bit of a showboater.
Speaker A:He's always pulling off these tricks and whatnot.
Speaker A:He's trying to entertain the audience.
Speaker A:He might, he might take a little bit of attention away from what the dinner is intended for.
Speaker A:So I'll.
Speaker A:Maybe John the Baptist or something.
Speaker C:This is a hard one.
Speaker C:I'm not sure.
Speaker C:So maybe Kanye West's mother.
Speaker A:Oh, that's a good one.
Speaker A:That's a good one.
Speaker A:Because I honestly, I'd like her opinion on what, what exactly has happened.
Speaker A:And then maybe right now trying to.
Speaker B:Actually get recovery like it happened this past week that he's just like, I'm sorry I did these things, but I'm like, I don't know what, I don't know.
Speaker A:I will, I will just say I think Kanye west is easily one of the most talented artists when it comes to the, his, his, his ability to, to express.
Speaker A:I think he's incredibly talented.
Speaker A:I, I absolutely enjoy many of his albums and his singles and B sides and, and so Kanye West, I think is extremely talented.
Speaker A:I just wish he wasn't a Nazi or a self proclaimed Nazi.
Speaker A:Like, I wish, you know, there will be, there will be two different stories of Kanye west that, that I eventually tell my grandchildren and great grandchildren and that is that I hopefully will be able to leave out, I hopefully believe be able to leave out the crazy.
Speaker C:All of this crazy stuff.
Speaker C:But he also made graduation at the end, so we're going to just swipe all that stuff out and he's still a great guy.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's not, let's not, let's not call it the end.
Speaker A:Let's, let's, let's hope for reformation.
Speaker A:You know, he'll, he'll make some changes, so.
Speaker A:Well, Joel, those were fantastic answers.
Speaker A:Thank you very much for participating in that.
Speaker A:Also thank you very much for being on the show.
Speaker A:Joel's book is available on Amazon.
Speaker A:It's called Put the Phone down, we have a Job to Do.
Speaker A:It's available on Amazon again.
Speaker A:You can check for link in the show notes.
Speaker A:So go check that out.
Speaker A:Purchase it because ultimately I think that for a lot of us, especially if you're listening to this podcast on your phone, there's a good possibility you've been scrolling through junk on your phone while you've been listening.
Speaker A:So you know, that's just the reality of it.
Speaker A:So go check that out again.
Speaker A:Joel, thank you very much for being on with us.
Speaker A:Real quick.
Speaker A:Want to remind everybody, vote.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:It was absolute pleasure.
Speaker A:Our pleasure.
Speaker A:Vote for the All About Nothing podcast as best local podcast.
Speaker A:Just click the link in the show notes or go to theallaboutnothing.com you'll need to sign up to verify you're a real person, but because they don't allow any bots.
Speaker A:So also check out theallaboutnothing.com you'll find a list of all of the friends of the Pod that have also been nominated and you can go vote for them as well as a favor to us that would be very much appreciated.
Speaker A:That's going to do it for episode number 257.
Speaker A:Thank you again Joelie Williams for being here again, author of Put the Phone Down.
Speaker A:We have a job to do.
Speaker A:Also Bill Fry, thank you for being here.
Speaker A:I know that at some point Zach King is going to rejoin the show, but he hasn't yet.
Speaker A:So Bill still not being paid for his appearances here.
Speaker A:Links to all of our past episodes, podcast platforms and merchandise, social media all available at our webpage theallaboutnothing.com and if you think our financial model of giving away free content and entertainment is silly and you're in the giving mood, why not become an official nothinger and support the show?
Speaker A:Members get early access to this episode as well as exclusive content.
Speaker A:Visit members.theallaboutnothing.com or you can find a link on our webpage.
Speaker A:You can also give a one time donation through the same link.
Speaker A:Or if you'd like to be a part of the show, you can call and leave us a message.
Speaker A: -: Speaker A:You can call, you can email the show the the show@theallaboutnothing.com or you can join our Discord server.
Speaker A:Links can be found on our web page.
Speaker A:Again, thank you everybody for listening.
Speaker A:You all stay safe, be kind and keep your hands to yourself.
Speaker A:The All About Nothing podcast is a product of big Media and produced and engineered by me, Barrett Gruber.
Speaker A:Thanks to Cake for our intro music.
Speaker A:Sick of you.
Speaker A:You can follow everything Cake the band@cakemusic.com thanks to muffin producer for our outro Music.
Speaker A:You can follow muff on Instagram ufftheproducer.
Speaker A:You can follow me across social media by visiting linktree barrettgruber and you can follow Zach King on linktree aanzak.
Speaker A:Wanna support the show?
Speaker A:Visit our webpage theallaboutnothing.com and become a member.
Speaker A:There are several tiers available that give you early access to episodes as well as exclusive content.
Speaker A:To find links to our social media, podcast platforms and merchandise to support the show as well as past episodes, visit theallaboutnothing.com if you'd like to be a part of part of the show, you can email theshow theallaboutnothing.com or you can call our number and leave a message.
Speaker A: -: Speaker A:If the time between these episodes is more than you can handle, check out our sister shows what the POD Was that With Carrie, Zach and Myself.
Speaker A:Welcome to Wonderland with Amie Politically Speaking with Erica, Kirsten and Emily and Black, White and Blue in the south with Dr.
Speaker A:Jamil Brooks and Bill Kimbler.
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Speaker A:Thank you for listening and hear us next week.
